Massive fire in London apartment block

[Peter103]

No gas personnel are on site, that's my point.

Russ

A fire officer did say during a televised press report, that they had to deal with a fractured gas main to the upper floors, and that this was hampering the fire crews getting to the top on the inside of the building.

 

[Satch]

Despite the tragedy - are tower blocks statistically unsafer for fire deaths compared to standard housing ?
Also the USA and many other countries have far taller buildings-so i assume that concept on its own is not unsafe?

Correct, but it relies largely on containment of fire.

Covering the outside of a high rise building with a thin aluminium skin over the top of flammable insulation is simply stupid and illegal in for example USA & Germany because large scale fires cause the outer skin to fail or delaminate exposing the core.

It's been fudged for years on the back of small scale testing that doesn't take account of the huge heat flux created when a large area catches, at which point steel firebreaks and intumescent strips which are supposed to contain fire within single panels are pointless.

Then you very quickly have vertical fire propagation in a V shape of a material that produces dense smoke laced with Hydrogen Cyanide and other toxins.

External glazing quickly fails and fire re enters building in multiple locations and it all turns to rats because any and all containment has been lost.

Over the coming years it's all going to have to come off and be replaced. That's why various bodies have been in denial of the problem since the 1990's and we're not prepares to ban use in new applications because it would not simply be clear that the Emperor had no new clothes but in fact never had any to start with.

 

[AnimMerc]

Of course these are completely related and unbiased sources

If you can't find the relation with them Im afraid I can't help you with that as for them being biased explain further with fact not opinion.

 

[markjay]

Just drove past it on the A40.

Very eerie, looking at the silent charcoaled monument that was once a home for so many people, and thinking that there are still bodies inside.

 

[markjay]

....and some drivers stopped very dangerously on the narrow hard shoulder on the A40, presumably to take a better look (or a photo). Hope this does not start a new sick selfie trend

 

[DSM10000]

If you can't find the relation with them Im afraid I can't help you with that as for them being biased explain further with fact not opinion.

You seem to be one long on opinion and selective quotations out of context

 

[markjay]

I can only think for two other events of similar magnitude (albeit with less casualties) in recent times, and these are the Kings Cross tube station fire in 1987 and the Ladbroke Grove rail crash in 1999.

 

[wemorgan]

I can only think for two other events of similar magnitude (albeit with less casualties) in recent times, and these are the Kings Cross tube station fire in 1987 and the Ladbroke Grove rail crash in 1999.

I remember the Herald of Free Enterprise. 193 people died.

 

[AnimMerc]

You seem to be one long on opinion and selective quotations out of context

It may seem like that to you but that is the only your opinion.

 

[markjay]

I remember the Herald of Free Enterprise. 193 people died.

I meant fires, but fair point.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Piper Alpha and Summerland - "This is not a time for soundbites"

Being an old codger, I remember Piper Alpha in around '87, which was a couple of hundred oil rig workers, and the rather more tragic Summerland fairground fire which killed something like 50 innocents back in the early 70's.

This event shocks British Firefighters to the core, because every risk assessment said it shouldn't really have happened. Which makes a cool cold appraisal really important.

To misquote Tony Blair "This is NOT a time for soundbites, we have the hand of history upon us."

 

[190]

I used to run a regular safety training course using the haunting video produced by the piper alpha enquiry team. It was a powerful example of the escalation and loss of life that can occur as the result of a small mistake in safety procedures.

By far the worst industrial tragedy resulting from failure to follow procedures was the Bohpal gas disaster in 1984 which killed thousands.

 

[tali]

Just drove past it on the A40.

Very eerie, looking at the silent charcoaled monument that was once a home for so many people, and thinking that there are still bodies inside.

"10 Rillington Place" -one of UK's most notorious addresses is a 5 minute walk away

 

[markjay]

By far the worst industrial tragedy resulting from failure to follow procedures was the Bohpal gas disaster in 1984 which killed thousands.

Ah yes, the Union Carbide battery factory.

 

[grober]

Ah yes, the Union Carbide battery factory.

Union Carbide's Insecticide plant surely?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbaryl

 

[markjay]

Union Carbide's Insecticide plant surely?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbaryl

Yes, just read it, you are right of course (for some reason I remembered it as a battery factory).

 

[markjay]

I can only think for two other events of similar magnitude (albeit with less casualties) in recent times, and these are the Kings Cross tube station fire in 1987 and the Ladbroke Grove rail crash in 1999.

Of course I forgot to mention the British Airtours 737 that caught fire on the runway in Manchester due to an engine oil leak, killing 55 people. This was in 1985.

 

[Meldrew2]

Of course I forgot to mention the British Airtours 737 that caught fire on the runway in Manchester due to an engine oil leak, killing 55 people. This was in 1985.

I thought it was a fractured turbine blade that was not contained by the engine housing? Maybe my memory is playing tricks.

There have been some terrible fires outside the UK too - I am thinking of the Cocoanut Grove (492 dead) and the Iroquois Theatre (602 dead). It must be terrifying to be trapped and knowing you are doomed. Just terrifying.

 

[rf065]

A fire officer did say during a televised press report, that they had to deal with a fractured gas main to the upper floors, and that this was hampering the fire crews getting to the top on the inside of the building.

Not sure why he would say that as gas supplies to multi story buildings were outlawed before this block was even built. Again, see Ronan Point for explanation.

Russ

 

[Scott_F]

I can only think for two other events of similar magnitude (albeit with less casualties) in recent times, and these are the Kings Cross tube station fire in 1987 and the Ladbroke Grove rail crash in 1999.

56 people died in the Bradford City fire in 1985.