Matt Jones Tyre

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
I'm just nipping out to have a go at my old Michelins with a plane...
 
Matt
How is this road legal, surely it needs 1.6mm over the centre 70% of tread. that looks to be pushing that a bit.
1.6mm of the original manufacturers tread - if the manufacturer left an expanse of rubber without any thread I'm not sure how this would apply. However there are regulations on the amount of grove vs rubber. I've seen some road legal tyres with pretty sparse groves on track day cars - but nothing as close to a slick as this.
 
The grooves & sipes are only there to disperse water. The also destabilise the treadblocks & cause noise & heat so, for a dry-weather tyre, the fewer the better

I believe this tyre is designed for Classic rallying

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk
 
I am amazed to read the claim they are road legal, and I suppose you have checked, or are we being teased?

If they are road legal then I would criticise anyone that used them on a public road. Yes they will provide excellent grip in the dry, but can we guarantee our weather.

Are you serious about the claim?

Regards
John

Edit

Just read the excellent post about this car and much respect to the owner. Well done, but how on earth did that number plate pass the MOT? I am only curious because two neighbours had failures regarding number plates just because of spacing. Your plate looks like it hits the jackpot regarding current legislation. I am not a kill joy and am only asking because of what happened to my neighbours.

Well done on the conversion
 
Last edited:
Yup, those bad boys are legal. They also come with a letter that stipulates the information below should/when you pulled over by the plod:

Michelin TB5F & TB5R Course / Racing tyres, although developed very much with motorsport use in mind, are road legal and roadworthy. They therefore comply with GB law in the ‘Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations, 1986’ – as amended. A requirement of these regulations is that car tyres must conform to ‘United Nations ECE Regulation 30’. To demonstrate this each tyre carries an ‘E2’ mark on both sidewalls and an adjacent type approval number.

Michelin TB5F & TB5R Course / Racing tyres and MOT inspections:

The Construction and Use Regulation 27, which applies to the condition and maintenance of tyres, states that the grooves of the tread pattern shall be of a depth of at least 1.6mm throughout a continuous band comprising the central three quarters of the breadth of tread and round the entire circumference of the tyre.

When a Michelin TB5F or TB5R Course / Racing tyre is being checked at an MOT test station, the 1.6mm minimum tread depth regulation applies only to the tyre’s principal grooves, those containing the wear indicators.

The MOT inspector can verify the above point by referring to “The MOT Inspection Manual” section 4.1 (tyres) issue date June 2002, issued by the Vehicle Inspectorate. In order to avoid any inconvenience or delay during a vehicle (MOT) test or roadside inspection we suggest that drivers using this tyre on the road carry a copy of this note in their vehicle.

For information, the original tread depth of the Michelin TB5F & TB5R Course / Racing principal grooves containing the wear indicators is approximately 5.5mm.
 
I would criticise anyone that used them on a public road.

How on earth did that number plate pass the MOT?

Don't take this the wrong way, but what qualifies you to criticise me? Have you used these tyres in the wet before? Have you used a semi/cut slick tyre before?

As for the plates, they passed the MoT without a problem. They're legible, correctly spaced and match the original colours. The only difference is that they're made from metal and have some very minor font differences. Neither illegal!


Glad you like the conversion :)
 
Don't take this the wrong way, but what qualifies you to criticise me? Have you used these tyres in the wet before? Have you used a semi/cut slick tyre before?

A bit touchy arn't we?

Seems a simple question to me, seems strange that a tyre with so little tread could be classified as street legal.
Looking at the way GP cars behave in the wet< I myself would hate to drive them in a down pour
]
 
depth of at least 1.6mm throughout a continuous band comprising the central three quarters of the breadth of tread and round the entire circumference of the tyre.

When a Michelin TB5F or TB5R Course / Racing tyre is being checked at an MOT test station, the 1.6mm minimum tread depth regulation applies only to the tyre’s principal grooves, those containing the wear indicators.

So are you saying only the central treaded part of the tyre is counted in the 75% equation.
That section looks to me to be approximately 30% of the tyre width, so 75% of that would be 25% of the total tyre width.

That doesn't sound correct.

From what you are saying any tyre where there is a 'principle' tread area and a 'secondary' tread area would only require 1.6mm over 75% of the 'principle' area.
That would apply to most tyres as they often have a different tread area at the edges to reduce edge wear.

I suspect the tyre conforms to construction and use regs and someone has worked out that there is confusion and thus a loophole in the tread regulations and is exploiting it.
Otherwise they wouldn't issue a letter of 'assistance'.
 
Don't take this the wrong way, but what qualifies you to criticise me? Have you used these tyres in the wet before? Have you used a semi/cut slick tyre before?
Hi Matt,
Certainly no offence taken and what qualifies me to comment?

Nothing.... zero, zilch

BUT

When I was out in the Far East I watched a motor race where the weather was fine and the cars were on slicks. During the race the heavens opened up and I got soaked :devil: ;) Quite literally soaked to the skin, but I digress. Cars travelling at walking pace were quite literally aquaplaning and not stopping until they hit an immovable object. These cars were literally travelling at a walking pace and were aquaplaning.

Yes, your tyres have a tread but could you please explain to me how they dispel water? The outter sides of the tyre appear to have no dispersion ability and would surely have to ride on top of any surface water? Being road legal is not a get out of jail free card when something appears so wrong.

How would I feel if I slid off the road and injured an innocent pedestrian on those tyres that are so contentious? I respect the fact you have stated they are road legal, but can't you see the problem? How does that tread dispel water if that slick area is in contact with the road surface? The only way for that to happen is surely down to the tread pushing the water out to the sides? Once it is pushed away from the tread then surely it will be underneath the smooth rubber which will in turn then try to remove this water?

Regarding the number-plates the legislation is quite clear regarding font, font size, spacing and of course required markings that need to be displayed. I have no idea how that plate got through any type of MOT but I hope you show some loyalty to the person that signed the MOT as they have clearly made an error. I would tactfully describe that numberplate as being a 'show plate'

Any argument regarding this plate would I guess be rebutted by this paragraph

Number plates need to be replaced if they have been customised with: Stylised letters such as italics

but as you can see from the legislation the plate fails on numerous points.

I think we both have opposing opinions on this issue and it detracts from my admiration on the work you have done to your car, respect to you for this and yes, I like it, and my negative remarks are not a criticism of you, or the excellent improvements you have done on this very nice car.

Regards
John
 
Last edited:
Hi Matt,
Certainly no offence taken and what qualifies me to comment?

Nothing.... zero, zilch

BUT

When I was out in the Far East I watched a motor race where the weather was fine and the cars were on slicks. During the race the heavens opened up and I got soaked :devil: ;) Quite literally soaked to the skin, but I digress. Cars travelling at walking pace were quite literally aquaplaning and not stopping until they hit an immovable object. These cars were literally travelling at a walking pace and were aquaplaning.

Yes, your tyres have a tread but could you please explain to me how they dispel water? The outter sides of the tyre appear to have no dispersion ability and would surely have to ride on top of any surface water? Being road legal is not a get out of jail free card when something appears so wrong.

How would I feel if I slid off the road and injured an innocent pedestrian on those tyres that are so contentious? I respect the fact you have stated they are road legal, but can't you see the problem? How does that tread dispel water if that slick area is in contact with the road surface? The only way for that to happen is surely down to the tread pushing the water out to the sides? Once it is pushed away from the tread then surely it will be underneath the smooth rubber which will in turn then try to remove this water?

Regarding the number-plates the legislation is quite clear regarding font, font size, spacing and of course required markings that need to be displayed. I have no idea how that plate got through any type of MOT but I hope you show some loyalty to the person that signed the MOT as they have clearly made an error. I would tactfully describe that numberplate as being a 'show plate'

Any argument regarding this plate would I guess be rebutted by this paragraph

Number plates need to be replaced if they have been customised with: Stylised letters such as italics

but as you can see from the legislation the plate fails on numerous points.

I think we both have opposing opinions on this issue and it detracts from my admiration on the work you have done to your car, respect to you for this and yes, I like it, and my negative remarks are not a criticism of you, or the excellent improvements you have done on this very nice car.

Regards
John

No problem - I guess I just got lucky with the MoT. We'll see what happens when I take it to a new tester!

I didn't mean to come across as ****y about the rubber, but I've been using slicks and semi slick tyres for years on the track under various conditions. I know their limits, I know my limits and I'll be taking my car on a few track days to learn its limits.

Also, the tyres you'd have seen in the Far East would be a very, very different kettle of fish to mine!

Thanks for the kind words about the car. Bloody thing's still not finished, though...
 
Firstly - thanks for the link, that is a very useful find for road legal competition rubber :)



Don't take this the wrong way, but what qualifies you to criticise me? Have you used these tyres in the wet before? Have you used a semi/cut slick tyre before?

I have - and will continue to do so, I have used every form of "just about" road legal tyre in an attempt to gain a slight advantage :)

As well as cut slicks I have tried
Dunlop D01J
Yoko A048R
Toyo R888
And some drag radials that were even less legal than the ones you posted.

Unless I am VERY sure of the weather I dont use these on the road though, R888's were very good at a soaking Bruntingthorpe, in fact much better than I could have hoped for. I have still been left pointing in the wrong direction if it rains though! (Ambition overcoming talent and grip)


I think I'm going to have to give these Michelins a try though, they are almost exactly what I was looking for :)



As for the plates, they passed the MoT without a problem. They're legible, correctly spaced and match the original colours. The only difference is that they're made from metal and have some very minor font differences. Neither illegal!

As an Ex MOT tester - thats a fail, no question ;)




I still love the Car !


Mark
 
I didn't mean to come across as ****y about the rubber, but I've been using slicks and semi slick tyres for years on the track under various conditions. I know their limits, I know my limits and I'll be taking my car on a few track days to learn its limits.
Hi Matt,
For track days I think those tyres will be the bee's knees and well done for getting them approved. I have NO issues whatsoever with using them on a race track and hopefully they will give amazing grip.

Good luck and please keep the pictures coming.

:devil: :) Regarding the plates, me thinks if you ever get stopped then humble pie might be the course of the day and with any luck you 'might' get away with them ;)

Regards
John

Edit
I tried sending you a pm to thank you for taking my post in the spirit it was meant, but no can do, so

Thanks very much for taking my post in the spirit it was meant. I was not trying to either score points or be a smart posterior :) I was merely curious about certain issues

Yours sincerely
John
 
Last edited:
No problem. As I say, I didn't mean to be touchy - I was genuinely interested to know if you had experience with slicks or cut slicks on the road. I should have worded it more politely!

That's funny about the plates. My tester isn't massively liberal - I like it that way considering I put cars through that I've worked on myself; a second pair of eyes is always useful.

Oh well, I guess I'll pop my old set in the boot. That's the great thing about the German plastic surrounds - you can change them without a screwdriver in a matter of seconds!

I should also add that I'm not a reckless driver and wouldn't take the car out when it's teeming down with rain. But I think I'd be able to handle nursing it home if I got caught.

Mark 300SL - I've got mixed feelings about A048Rs. But for the money, it's difficult to find better unless you go second hand, which, in my experience, can be troublesome.

Give the TB5s a go, but they're not cheap! Mine were £250 a corner in 215/55/15 flavour. But I've heard nothing but excellent reviews from fellow racers. I got them from rubber gnus www.longstonetyres.co.uk. They're an excellent company and really use their classics - none of this polish-and-park-in-a-field malarky (I should add that I enjoy a fair bit of polish-and-park-in-a-field myself...)!

In other news, I'm no longer the world's only four-door V8 W123 owner :(

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dxhKQplI0pA&feature=related

I've got 500cc more displacement, mind ;)
 
Hello

The BMW CSL had tyres / track tyres that if you chose that option you would have to sign a disclaimer...

such as this

http://www.michelin.co.uk/uk/front/act_affich.jsp?news_id=21856&lang=EN&codeRubrique=43



Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tyres on unique split-spoke alloys. Both are no-cost options. On the track-biased rubber the CSL (which has a wider front track) generates staggering cornering force of well over 1g, according to BMW.
Customers who choose to delimit their CSLs and want the ultimate wheel and tyre combination are being asked to sign disclaimers guarding against negligence claims in case of cold-tyre-induced crashes (and possibly against engines suffering oil deprivation under extreme use).



Not sure how they manage to be road legal when you can fail an MOT for having the inside edges a little worn on 'normal' tyres but I'm not an MOT bod so good luck.


Car is looking great by the way I repsect you guys that can do such stuff to cars !!!
 
Re the number plate conforming to MOT regs, the new number plate rules came out last autumn, and were suspended this spring, it could depend on when the car got its MOT. The purpose of the rules was to make all cars conform to number plate recognition cameras. When the rules start again I will post it up
 
Like others, I'm very suprised that those tyres are road legal !
I've seen the Toyo R888's before. Very few grooves in them but at least they're over the full width of the tyre.
The Michelins just look like they will aquaplane - even more so with the width you have on yours.
I certainly wouldn't want to do an emergency stop on a wet motorway!:eek:

I'd consider a spare set of wheels/tyres to get you to the track days.
'Would be such a pity to bend your car!!
Congrats on the build - thats modding on another level ! ;)

Jay.

.
 
Re the number plate conforming to MOT regs, the new number plate rules came out last autumn, and were suspended this spring, it could depend on when the car got its MOT. The purpose of the rules was to make all cars conform to number plate recognition cameras. When the rules start again I will post it up
Hi Malcolm that number plate would not conform to any of the legislation but that detracts from the point of this thread and I only mention it to avoid any confusion.

I think the only way we can avoid complying with most of the rules is to have an old car that qualifies for the old black based number plates.

Regards
John
 
Not sure how they manage to be road legal when you can fail an MOT for having the inside edges a little worn on 'normal' tyres but I'm not an MOT bod so good luck.

Quite simply when a road tyre runs out of tread it is out of rubber - just a single mm or so below the tread is the canvas.
Race tyres have the thickness of rubber that is present in the treaded tyre - its just doesnt appear that way. Matts tyre will likely have the 5mm+ of solid rubber, above the 1mm of backing rubber before it hits the canvas, wheras a worn tyre has 1mm or less before it hits the canvas and is therefore dangerous.

Race tyres have markers in them to show how much rubber is left - almost like a partial hole punch, tiny cylindrical pits in the tyre , as the tyres wear the pits get shallower - just like a tread pattern wearing out.

Hope this helps


Mark
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom