Mazda RX8?

[gaz_l]

Greetings, citizens.

I'm rationalising the car collection as 4 cars was getting a bit silly. The Subaru has gone, the Barchetta will be back on the road next week and will be at Auto Italia next weekend with a "For Sale" notice in the window. I figure 5000 Italian car enthusiasts, at least one of them will be in the market..

Even if no-one at AI bites, it's going to market anyway. I love the little thing dearly and we had a great touring holiday in Europe last year in it, but it's time to move on. This will leave me with the SLK and the Panda, which covers most of the bases but I'm thinking that I might need one more to keep things interesting.

High on the list is a Mazda RX8, seems to be something of a performance bargain at the moment. Mrs. Gaz has said in the past that she likes the look of them (although she's not aware that I'm thinking of purchasing one ), so it might be easier to get past the committee. Has anyone had one/knows someone who has one? Being a fan of quirky engineering, I've never had a rotary so that's an itch to be scratched..

I know they're thirsty but the SLK isn't exactly a model of economy . That doesn't bother me but I have heard of issues with the RX8 not liking short journeys with the engine susceptible to flooding - that's the combustion chambers, not the carburettor (for older readers who remember what they are!) - sounds a bit worrying. There is conflicting information on the net (quelle surprise), hence why I enquire..

An RX8 will be woefully short on torque compared, to, well, the Panda probably, but a 9000 RPM redline sounds like a bit of fun and I've always thought they're a nice looking car, although very colour sensitive. Current favourite is the "Evolve" limited edition which comes in a nice metallic Copper..

Any comments welcome chaps/chapesses

Cheers,

Gaz

 

[wemorgan]

A journalist on PH recently bought one. Sounds like cracking fun, if bought at the right price with also a compression check.

PH Fleet Intro: Mazda RX-8

Must admit there seem to be few other modern rear wheel drive sports cars that offer what the RX8 does for the same money. I say go for it

 

[AMG-Al]

Funnily enough I have been looking at the same thing over the last week or so. Even with very low mileage, tidy looking ones start at about 2,500.
I can live with the oil and fuel consumption but like you I hear too many stories about engine problems which seem to be a mixture of operator error and poor dealer understanding of the product.

There don't appear to be many things you can check and unusually a full dealer service history shouldn't be relied on to give you a lot of comfort.

However, under £ 3,000, under 30,000 miles, 231 bhp........

 

[martyz]

I have also looked at them,and a friend has one,lovely looking car,and fun to drive.
even researched the rotary engine.concluded too much of a leap of faith for me.
but at the right price and a tame mazda tech at hand,maybe.

 

[moonloops]

Ensure you test the RX8 in all conditions. Low torque and high revving engines are a generally terrible. I had a Civic Type R and whilst it was probably a very good on a track, day to day driving it was awful.

 

[kit17]

The RX8 is a great car, and works fine as a daily driver as long you can live with the poor fuel consumption, despite whats wrote about them they actually don't use that much oil, infact probably less than most Audi's!
We've had one for 6 years and took it to the Nurburgring last year, the handling is brilliant which is what the car is all about, it's not really a 0-60 car but is so easy to drive fast round corners.

As someone else pointed out make sure you get a compression check and budget for a new set of coils which need to be chanaged every 30k , although this isn't in the Mazda service schedule, all the rotary specialists recommend it to keep the engine healthy. For more Info see link:

RX8 Owners Club • View topic - The RX-8 Buyers Guide.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

We've been looking too - Mrs D wants to buy her Mom one for her 60th - she had blue MX6 back in the day which she absolutely loved, and he RX8 seems the closest equivalent.

We looked at them when we first needed back doors (for Jnr D) but for every day driving the lack of torque was a problem for me, but as a play thing then it must be fun!

 

[Dryce]

Noisier inside than a SLK.

Quieter than a BMW Z4 on runflats.

Quality seems OK for the money.

Rear seats compact but you can get two small to average size adults in them. The mini rear access door does kind of work.

Engine in general use is refined compared with a 4 pot - not so refined compared with a MB or BMW 6 pot petrol. However things get interesting when you push it to higher revs.

You're already aware of the fuel consumption issues.

Personally I think it's acually quite practical as a 2+2 - more flexible than a two seater.

And it's what I'd call: interesting.

 

[ddavidm]

You lucky people. Good timing me joining this forum. I'll put myself forward as the resident RX8 expert if I may.

Firstly, a couple of photos are in order of my little beauty:-

To put this into context, I'm not unused to quick cars. Previous conquests include a Lotus Carlton, and Elise, and most recently an e39 M5. I sold that due to a job relocation which meant I was commuting 200 miles per day for about 6 months. Hence I bought a Fiesta diesel, and, after the job worked out and I moved permanently, started looking around at what I could get as a fun car, and decided on an RX8.

It is not the quickest car in the world. But at 6.4 seconds to 62 it's not exactly slow. It's not the most economical car in the world. You'll average no more than 22mpg round town, and no more than 30mpg on a gentle motorway cruise.

What it is however, is the favourite car I've ever owned with a character like no other. It is also the best handling car I've ever owned (yes, even compared to the Elise). It is also a car which puts a smile on my face every time I drive it, even after more than a year. I couldn't even say that about my M5. It is an occasion. It is something very special. It has a soul, and a distinct personality, and it thanks you for driving it hard. It is a car which compliments you as a driver. It is a car which allows you to feel like a driving god without biting back. It is utterly predictable on the edge, and the edge is a lot further than you might expect. I've had some track time in her, and I have taken corners pulling g's that the evo's, whilst obliterating me on the straights, can only dream of.

In my experience, however fast a car you drive, you get used to the speed and power very swiftly, and it quickly feels "normal". However, I never tire of the 8's handling, and that you can enjoy within the legal limits.

Some myths:
Oil consumption: It's not an issue. I used to check the oil every 2nd fill up. Now, I know it needs topping up a little every 4th fill up. It's no hardship, and takes seconds. In 10,000 miles, I've used less than 5 litres to top up in total.

It floods:
Nonsense. I've never flooded mine. If you start the car cold, say to move it off the drive, and then switch off immediately and leave it until the next morning, you may have an issue. However, just raise revs to 4k for 10 seconds and switch off, and hey presto, no issue.

It is bad for short journeys:
Nonsense. My commute is less than 1.5 miles and I have had no issues at all.

Low torque and high revving engines are terrible:
Nonsense. It's just a different driving style to a diesel. And far more involving. And yes, you can just pootle about to the shops if you wish without issue and without revving the **** off it. It has perfectly sufficient torque for daily use and normal driving.

The high revving engine is amazingly involving. If you put your foot down at 5k rpm, (and especially if you have a Milltek exhaust as I do) , you will feel like you're in an F1 car. It is an experience, and if you're someone who likes to drive rather than be driven, you WILL love the experience.

Compression:
If buying an RX8, you must have a hot compression test done. You can not use a normal compression tester. It needs to be a rotary specialist or Mazda main dealer (although they're generally best avoided as they know nothing about RX8's).

192 vs 231:
Real world, there is no difference. In fact, the 192 is a better town driver. I've been on plenty of meets in my 192, and a 231 has never been able to shake me off. On a track, on a long straight, the 231 will nose ahead. real world though, no difference and buy on condition.

Longevity:
These will not last as long as an E class diesel but there's a misconception that they blow up after 60k miles. Nonsense. Well looked after (e.g. oil change every 6k) these will last well, and there are plenty of examples on the RX8 OC forum well over 100k miles and going strong. Also a good idea to premix. Pour 125ml of Motul 710 2 stroke oil into the tank before you fill up.

Ignition:
This is a known weak spot. And yes, generally advised you change coils every 30k miles. OEM HT leads are also rubbish. However, simple solution is a Black Halo Racing ignition system. I've just organised a group buy of these in from the States, and these replace the entire system, and will not need replacing, ever.

The interior is a nice place to be too. Heated electric seats, a very good stereo (Bose), leather on most, super comfy sports seats, surprisingly good quality plastics etc and as you can see above, room for the kids (or even adults) in the back.


In summary, these are phenomenal cars, and I think the thinking petrol head's performance bargain of the century. But get a good one. There are lots of ropey ones about, and many a horror story of the uninitiated buying a cheapo only to discover it has low compression. Even then, worst case scenario is a rebuild at 3-3.5k from a specialist such as Hayward Rotary (and you can get it ported at the same time!).

So, I've just sold my wife's VW Touran. She's wanted a smaller car for ages, and yesterday I got her a B180cdi. That leaves us without a larger family car, hence I'm lurking with intent to get an E320, having never owned a Merc and always liked them. And if so, the RX8 will have to go, and will be sadly missed and fondly remembered.

If anyone might be interested, I'm more than happy to take you for a spin. Mine is a 57 plate, 23k miles, FSH, perfect compression, and a number of tasteful aftermarket bits and bobs to enhance the experience. Nothing boy racer-ish (I'm a 43 yr old lawyer after all). No expense has been spared, and mine is known amongst Midlands meet circles as the cleanest RX8 for many a mile.Mine cost me about £6,500 a year ago, and I've spent well over £2.5k on improvements since. Exhaust, 2 fully refurbished sets of wheels, one with summer RE050's and one with Goodyear Winter tyres (£800!), new ignition system, new coolant tank (sensor failure is common giving false dash warning light), new Bosch silver S4 battery...the list goes on and on.

Quite seriously, buy well, and you will not regret an RX8.

And should you wish to mod to insane levels, you can. Come along to Japfest in May and see some awesome machinery (and watch the RX8's devour the corners on track).

 

[Colin_b]

Thirsty, excellent history essential, don't ignore routine checks. And cheap to buy.

Go for it.

 

[Kingy68]

Some myths:
It floods:
Nonsense. I've never flooded mine. If you start the car cold, say to move it off the drive, and then switch off immediately and leave it until the next morning, you may have an issue. However, just raise revs to 4k for 10 seconds and switch off, and hey presto, no issue.

It isn't nonsense. They do. My brother has had one (54 plate 231 bhp) for several years. He had Mazda out twice to sort the flooding until he got used to sorting it himself. (Fuel pump is under rear seat). He eventually adapted his switching off procedure to rev it hard (one sharp blat) which mostly stops it, but his neighbours do not appreciate that when he gets home very late! If he forgets to do this or the odd time it's not possible (has been the case at football a couple of times) you can tell as its a very laboured/strained start and either fires you are sorting via the pump.

He has had to replace the cat (rotted from the inside), coils etc and had all the recalls done. It's gone through a couple of batteries, but that's not too surprising as he does little mileage. He had the wheels refurbed at Mazdas expense early in ownership (a common fault stretching to other Mazdas). Thats all over a number of years though. It uses some oil, but not a huge amount.
My brother does not look after his cars very well at all. He interprets service schedules in his own way (Eg. 6000 miles or one year - and he will wait however many years until it gets to 6000 miles!). He will only take the cheapest option if available and sources any/all parts from internet and pays an indi (not a Mazda specialist indi) to fit them. He gets what work has to be done (usually because of an issue) rather than looking after the car.

With all that ^^ in mind my brothers RX-8 has been amazingly reliable. The only times it's let him down is battery and given the age of the car and my brothers lack of maintenance I'd put the blame at his door rather than the RX8.
Its quick if you drive it like you would ride a IL4 motorbike (no torque - all power up top) but that lack of torque doesn't bother you too much when pootling around in traffic. Mpg wise he gets no more than 20mpg on average and even on long journeys that increases to no more than 25mpg. The car really isn't about economy though.

Pound for pound if you can get one in good condition with good history they are a hell of a lot of car for the money.

 

[ddavidm]

Some interesting RX8 facts:-


The RX-8 has an aluminum hood that incorporates Shock Cone technology to minimize head injuries in the event of an accident with a pedestrian
The RX-8 power steering is electric instead of the old style hydraulic systems
The RX-8 has a return-less fuel system. This means warm fuel isn’t returned to the tank and fuel evaporation is reduced.
The RX-8 actually holds approximately 7 liters of oil, but when you change the oil only 4 liters are drained and replaced. This is because the oil cooler(s) are not drained when you drain the oil pan.
The RX-8 has an electric power sterring system. If your RX-8 engine stalls for whatever reason (i.e. run out of fuel) then the electric power steering continues to operate allowing you to steer safely to the side of the road.The electric power steering management is based, like the engine AFRs, on a programmed map that takes into consideration vehicle speed, steering input torque and engine speed.

• The RX-8 steering wheel has a magnesium core to save weight.The bonet and rear doors of the RX-8 are aluminum. Additionally, they arent welded together but instead joined via friction.
• The combustion chamber is covered with a resin coating to improve the initial engine break-in.
• The Eccentric shaft has a bypass valve that opens when the oil is cold to allow cold oil to bypass the rotors and help reduce the engine warm-up period.
• The RX-8s fuel tanks contain two roll-over valves that close and stop your charcoal canister from being contaminated with fuel in the unlikely event of an RX-8 rollover
• It is possible to disable the TCS/DSC completely on an RX-8 by pressing and holding the DSC switch until both indicator lights illuminate.
• Additonally, the dealership technicians can tell if youve set the DSC/TC to full off mode because doing it stores a fault code.
• The RENESIS rotary engine utilizes a metered oil pump to inject a small amount of oil onto the apex seals of each rotor to keep them lubricated and reduce failure.
• The RX-8 Tire Pressure Monitor System has both a low pressure and a high pressure setting.
• The high frequency sound you hear under the hood when the key is on but the engine is off is the electric throttle actuator pushing the throttle butterfly toward closed, waiting for you to start the engine.
• Every time you first start driving the RX-8 there is an aduible thump heard from the car. That is the ABS braking system performing a self-test.
• The manual RX-8 models have a carbon fibre drive shaft (the non-UK auto has a steel drive shaft).
• The carbon fibre drive shaft is protected from damage by shields and the connector pipe of the exhaust system.
• Not tightening your gas cap correctly after fueling will cause a CEL (Check Engine Light).
• The RX-8 clutch pedal height is adjustable.
• There is an audible alert tone when your car reaches 8,500 RPMs.
• Chassis Dyno-ing an RX-8 will make the ABS/DSC system think it has a malfunction and give you a CEL. However, if you shut off the DCS and TCS you can dyno the car without causing a CEL or DTC.
• The RX-8s automatic headlight adjusters, for the HID equipped cars, sensor is on the REAR anti-roll bar, which is why a lot of folks complain about headlight aim after they install lowering springs.
• The catalytic converters contain Platinum and thats why theyre so expensive to replace.
• The steel exhaust systems grow in length by about an inch when they are up to temperature.
• It is possible to listen to sounds coming from each individual speaker of your car, in a prescribed order. With the radio on, Press the power button and AUTO-M at the same time for 1 s. The speakers will then sound in the following order: Front passenger side speaker and tweeter, drivers side Front speaker and tweeter, drivers side rear speaker, and finally passenger side rear speaker.
• All the instrument cluster warning and indicator lights are LEDs.
• The RX-8 has drive-by-wire. There is no accelerator cable. The accelerator pedal sensor is a dual sensor that outputs to the PCM dependant on pedal position. Each sensor is a backup to the other if one fails. The PCM outputs to the throttle body which also has dual sensors.
• The MAZDA RX-8 has a 5-Star roll over rating from the NHTSA. The RX-8 was the only auto in the US that got the 5-star rating.
• The rear brake rotors have 60 vents, while the front rotors have 54 vents. Additionally, the front disks are the largest ever offered on a MAZDA production car.
• The Power train Control Module (PCM) carries out a full sixty step test of the Metering Oil Pump (MOP) every twelfth time the engine is turned off.
• The roof on the RX-8 has structural members that are constructed of nitride treated steel. Nitriding fuses titanium to the steel with nitrogen through heat. This produces a very strong, yet lighter weight (2.2 lbs less than ordinary steel) roof and contributes to better handling.
• The RX-8 employs mode control panels which are 2 circular depressions in the floor panels. These two circles vibrate alternately creating waves which cancel each other out and reduce noise and vibration in the cabin.
• At about 13,000rpm harmonic vibrations will destroy a RENESIS, but it could theoretically live its entire, long life just shy of that.

 

[AnilS]

You are an expert and have obvious fondness for the 8

Are you a member of the RX8ownersclub?

RX8 Owners Club • Index page

Excellent value cars and a well cared for one, will always look after you.

 

[ddavidm]

I am indeed a member of the RX8OC UK and have many an enjoyable meet. In fact, a bunch of us are off on a mammoth road trip round Wales for the weekend, can't wait.

There are plenty of RX8 experts on that forum, but I'm not one of them.

But yes, I most certainly do have fondness for the RX8 and I'd defy anyone else not to feel the same should they ever drive one properly.

 

[Bellow]

a 9000 RPM redline sounds like a bit of fun

Not really 9k though. Only the output shaft. The engine internals are only turning at 3k - hence the rubbish fuel economy.

 

[AnilS]

I am indeed a member of the RX8OC UK and have many an enjoyable meet. In fact, a bunch of us are off on a mammoth road trip round Wales for the weekend, can't wait.

There are plenty of RX8 experts on that forum, but I'm not one of them.

But yes, I most certainly do have fondness for the RX8 and I'd defy anyone else not to feel the same should they ever drive one properly.

I'm a founder member of that club, and used to serve on the Committee

I was one of the first owners in the UK (Nov 2003) and loved the car.

Been to a few meets myself but have since moved onto my two cars (BMW and Merc) and their associated forums

Ask away at any particular queries.

Heres my old one;

 

[ddavidm]

Anil, excellent, and thanks.

I'll doubtless have a load of questions when I get my E320.

I used to be a member of BM5W when I had the M5, a great forum, which sadly passed away due I was told to BMW getting heavy handed. Loss of a great resource for all things M

 

[stevieb15]

I am indeed a member of the RX8OC UK and have many an enjoyable meet. In fact, a bunch of us are off on a mammoth road trip round Wales for the weekend, can't wait.

There are plenty of RX8 experts on that forum, but I'm not one of them.

But yes, I most certainly do have fondness for the RX8 and I'd defy anyone else not to feel the same should they ever drive one properly.

Hi David, welcome to the forum and thanks for putting flesh on the bones of some commonly held myths and opinions about the RX8.
Its not a car that sits anywhere on my fantasy list, but yours looks great and you obviously love it, hope you get many years of continued trouble free enjoyment from it.

 

[Dryce]

Not really 9k though. Only the output shaft. The engine internals are only turning at 3k - hence the rubbish fuel economy.

How does that ratio relate to 'rubbish fuel economy'?

 

[Bellow]

How does that ratio relate to 'rubbish fuel economy'?

Because the rotary's poor fuel efficiency is rooted in its combustion chamber geometry with an excessive surface area to volume ratio causing large heat loss. The slowness of the rotors allows more time for greater heat loss. Slower running SI engines are also more detonation prone requiring their CR to be held back again compromising efficiency.

Contrast rotaries with the new Ford 3 cylinder unit which is undersquare to achieve tight chamber geometry minimising the surface area to volume ratio, and allowing a good CR for the level of boost it employs.