Mercedes 220D Vegetable oil

[phoenix_nights]

Was reading somewhere about a guy who runs his 1970 mercedes on vegetable oil ( a mixture of oil and diesel in winter) and how he fills up at the local LIDL store.

Anyone know much about this. Besides the smell there must be some reason why all indirect injection diesel engines are not converted and run on this stuff ?

 

[gary350]

Know a guy with a new BMW 530D who runs his on lots of cooking oil.

gary

 

[Tilly]

Was reading somewhere about a guy who runs his 1970 mercedes on vegetable oil ( a mixture of oil and diesel in winter) and how he fills up at the local LIDL store.

Anyone know much about this. Besides the smell there must be some reason why all indirect injection diesel engines are not converted and run on this stuff ?

Isn't it because its illegal and seen as tax dodging or am I being stupid here?

 

[phoenix_nights]

In case someone is interested this is what the guy did to run his '70 to run on veg oil.


Since the OM615 is a prechamber diesel engine i did not have to do much adjustings. Just replaced the old nozzles with modern ones (used in the W124 modells), changed the injection pressure from 115 bar to 155 bar, modified the port closing to earlier and that's it, voila

Fortunately Mercedes Benz used Bosch in-line pumps which are capable of pressure up to 550 bar (so i was told by an old Bosch mechanic) so that even at lower temperatures the oil causes no problems to the pump when it is thicker.

Modern direct injection engines (common rail for example) need much more modifications and need a 2 Tank system because the oil has to be pre-heated. I know of some modern Lucas pumps that had heavy problems and eventually crashed :-(


When i queried him regarding why it worked without pre-heaters he said

Well, i have modern sheathed-element glow plugs so that the prechambers are heated up quite fast and good. Needs about 3 to 4 turns.


Not that i understand everything but its cool all the same.

 

[bolide]

Vege-ing out

It's not illegal to run on cooking oil so long as you account to HM Customs & Excise for the fuel used & pay the duty due

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[Vlad]

I used to run my W124 300D on a 50/50 mix of Veg/Diesel and it ran better for it.....veg oil is more oxyginated that Diesel so therefore burns better.

Never had a problem in 30,000 miles and as long as you have a diesel that is old tech (ie pre combustion chambers) and runs on a Bosch pump, then you should have no problems....VW's work well as do older Volvo's running VW diesels.

You should always change the fuel filter after the first run on Veg as its more viscous than diesel and can scour any crud thats built up on the inside of the fuel lines, which then collects in the filter.....after that you should be fine.

I also used to run some injector cleaner through every 3000 miles and then give it an Italian Tune Up....ie take it out for a good thrash to blow the carbon out of the cumbustion chambers.

Try it.....you shouldn't have a problem and at 38p a litre from Costco (who sell nice big 25 litre drums) it can't be bad.

I'm making no comment re Customs!

 

[osc]

C220 veg oil trail

Has anybody actually tried this on the c220 diesel engine?

I used to run my xantia on a 50/50 mix of veg oil from costco (25 litre KTC drums) or lots of 3 litre bottles from adsa! I ran fine until i crashed the car!

 

[Dieselman]

It'll run Ok.
Personally I would pay the tax because if you get caught the car will be crushed, and it's easy to get caught because the exhaust fumes will smell differently.

Just register with C&R and then declare your usage monthly.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Generally its not recommended to run Veggie oil through a modern common rail diesel engine. Old diesels are fine though, although watch out for the fuel pump getting tired from sucking cold, thick, oil through.

 

[jonny]

i won´t even try, my car´s fuel pump is Lucas! Last time it had a problem, i was very lucky, it had only some " o-rings", that had dried, and the pump had a leak, air was pouring into the pump...so the car, in the morning had "starting" problems, it was fixed by a fuel pump expecialist. Everybody told me that it was enivetable...i had to get a new pump...but a new pump costs $$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!
For now, it´s the same old pump, fixed, and working like a swiss watch...for now!

 

[Parrot of Doom]

If yours is a standard diesel or turbodiesel jonny, you could easily put 1:1 veggie oil in the tank - but only on reasonably warm days. Once the winter weather sets in the veggie oil gets too thick, and the pump will struggle.

1:10 veggie to diesel is a good all-round ratio.

 

[jonny]

If yours is a standard diesel or turbodiesel jonny, you could easily put 1:1 veggie oil in the tank - but only on reasonably warm days. Once the winter weather sets in the veggie oil gets too thick, and the pump will struggle.

1:10 veggie to diesel is a good all-round ratio.

Thank´s for the info , i´ve been reading a lot of opinions about people, that are making all those experiences with veggie oil, but...i don´t know,
at least, in my car, it´s not worth the risk, because , another problem in the fuel pump means...Buy a new one! And a new...costs a lot of cash... . But i´m happy to hear it works! Home made Biodiesel!

I was putting new motor oil, once a month, when filling the tank, ´cause a mechanic told me it would be doing great to the pump, to the injectors etc...for lubricating all those inside elements of the fuel system...but i think, after i started using the oil...the car got those symptoms...or is just my mistake...

Until i know for sure it works without any problem, i´ll sit back and wait
Thank´s anyway!

 

[neilrr]

Interesting thread.

I bough a 190 D 2.5 (non turbo) the other day. Can I run it on veggie oil? What % mix would work that would not require any changes to the car and not do any harm?

Really cheap question - can used oil, such as from a Chippy, be used once it's been filtered?

 

[Parrot of Doom]

You don't need to change anything. You just need to bear in mind that with veggie oil, the colder it gets, the thicker it gets. Do you want winter cold thick vegetable oil running through your pump making it struggle? Thats why you can run it 100% veggie in the summer while its hot, but only 10% in the winter when its cold.

You can install a fuel pre-heater if you want to do it 100% all year around, but unless you're going to be doing high mileages and keeping the car for many years, its not worth it.

Apart from possible coking of the engine (unlikely in my experience) and damage to the fuel pump from cold oil, there isn't really any damage you can do. Its worth keeping an eye on the fuel filter for detritus from the fuel lines and tank, but only the first few times you do it. Fuel filters are extremely cheap.

Also bear in mind that it gives off a very noticeable fish+chips smell, although saying that Traffic Police are an unusual sight these days.

If you don't believe its possible, run the tank dry and pour 10 litres of vegetable oil in there. I guarantee that it will run quite normally. Just don't try and start it on a cold morning

 

[Rory]

Just don't try and start it on a cold morning

At what sort of temperatures would you guess you'd start to see problems?

And, even on very weak (say 10% mixes) would the chippy smell still be noticeable?

 

[neilrr]

Useful SVO & WVO Forum.

http://www.frybrid.com/forum/

& a UK based one

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php

 

[neilrr]

Stranger & stranger it gets.

I posted an enquiry about my 190 D 2.5 on http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk & was told the following by one of the forum members with 1300+ posts to his credit:

"Give it good service, check engine compressions/cylinder leak check, rectify if found to be outside spec. replace pre-heater-plugs and for best general performance due to its age/mileage replace injector nozzles...Should be DNOSD261 Use only Bosch or Delphi types, all pattern-parts are pretty crap Set them to Standard opening pressures....
advance injection timing 3 degrees over standard, and run 95% veggy with the ballance petrol on single-tank system Add heat-exchanger for winter and or WVO use upstream of main fuel-filter...."

So, I might now have a diesel which runs on chip oil & a little bit of petrol. Who'd have thunk?

 

[Parrot of Doom]

The petrol is there to thin the oil. Used to be common practice on normal diesels during cold winters.

 

[Thmsshaun]

I know a guy who runs an Escort van 50/50 mix usually paying around 54ppl for the oil in 3 litre containers. No problems to date although the mixture will be taken to a 10 - 20% mix now its getting a bit cooler.

 

[osc]

heat exchanger for veg oil

any thoughts on my research so far... there seem to be 2 main ways of doing this properly (rather than mixing and hoping for the best!)

1) 2 tank conversion - start/purge on diesel and then switch over to SVO when engine is hot (DIY kit £500ish)

2) preheaters (£50-£100)

a) electrical: glow plug warms the heat exchanger
b) electrical and water: glow plug warms during start up and hot water kicks in when the engine is running at temperature

there are two types of preheater (on ebay)
a) direct: glow plug DIRECTLY in the oil (quick to warm up nut may be bit dangerous should the plug overheat or breakdown)
http://www.vow2.co.uk/instalation.htm (pics of installation in C250 1996)

b) indirect: glow plug warms a thermal block which the oil flows through (have to wait 30 seconds on start-up) but seems to be a safer option)

i was thinking of changing the outside temp display to monitor the temperature of the veg oil as it flows into the filter