Mercedes 600 v12 140 coupe

[smoothcoupe]

I am going to look at a cl600 v12 coupe, it's a 1995 model with 141,000 miles on it, what do I need to look out for on it and how does the 600 differ to the 500 in terms of driving experience/power/smoothness etc. Because I already drive a 500 with the m119 engine, I just wanted toknow if it was worth changing or would i be pissing in the wind. Thanks.

 

[lynall]

I would be very very careful buying a 14 year old 12 cylinder car and possibly start to doubt my sanity.

Google coil packs or head gaskets, probably really nice to drive but could be a money pit.


Lynall

 

[EDZ649]

As Lynall says, check the head gaskets and engine wiring loom for perishing.

See if there are any oil leaks from the front of the heads, give it a good run then park it up for half an hour and then move it to see if any oil has dropped out on to the road. Also have good a look underneath to see if oil is dripping of any components. If the alternator is covered in oil that will most certainly be caused by a leaking head.

Doing the heads is expensive, I have first hand experience with this!

If it has adaptive suspension make sure it works properly too as this is also expensive to fix.

As far as smoothness is concerned you wont get smoother than the V12, when they are idling you have to keep checking the rev counter to see if they are still running! Power delivery is different than the V8, not so in your face. Mind you it would depend on which gearbox it has, i.e. 4 or 5 speed as the ratios will be different.

 

[BlackC55]

The best thinh to do is to get it inspected by a specialist that is near where you live so you know you are not buying a dog.

 

[Setanta]

If it is a 1995, then it would be an S600 coupe (and almost certain to have the older climate control system but I have seen a 1995 with the post update climate control - the wide LCD rather than the black push putton with red LCD so....who knows). It's not the green one in Dorset is it? Has been for sale for ages.

Have dabbled with the idea of a V12 many times, and time and again (4 times now!) have gone for the 5 litre V8 (S500 coupe, CL500 coupe, S500 sedan and SL500)

The CL500/S500 coupe is a very quick car and, contrary to what people think, you would be amazed at how fast they can be hustled through B roads.

I keep deciding against the V12's since....

- there is barely anything in it performance wise
- in both cars you will hit the national speed limit in, give or take, about 7 seconds or less
- the fuel consumption is shocking....filling a 100 litre tank does get expensive and since there is negligble return performance wise, it is not worth it.
- both top out at 155mph
- the V12's are, compared to the V8's, less reliable

It would have to be a very very good price to justify it. As Olly says, get it checked out.

 

[SL300-24]

I have a V12 W140 and it is a fantastic car.
I would try and buy a later one 1998 is perfect as most issues were pretty much sorted by then. I have done 4000 miles this year as I do not use it for commuting!

Fuel consuption is 23-24mpg on A road/motorway driving.
Mine has needed 2 coil packs this year at £40 each bosch. Apart from that it has cost me only a service and fuel.
All the above advice is sound, but do not let it put you off.
I also have a 500SL and the V12 engine is in a different league.....generally people who put you off a V12 have never owned one.

 

[JohnDeere8530]

massive gamble buying something that old and complex. Could and I guess it will cost you 1000s sooner or later.

Far more cost effective to buy something much newer in the long run

 

[SilverSaloon]

massive gamble buying something that old and complex. Could and I guess it will cost you 1000s sooner or later.

Far more cost effective to buy something much newer in the long run

yeah but some people want a particular model, ie a W140 over a W202 chassis.... you can only get them so "new"....

 

[Setanta]

I have a V12 W140 and it is a fantastic car.
I would try and buy a later one 1998 is perfect as most issues were pretty much sorted by then. I have done 4000 miles this year as I do not use it for commuting!

Fuel consuption is 23-24mpg on A road/motorway driving.
Mine has needed 2 coil packs this year at £40 each bosch. Apart from that it has cost me only a service and fuel.
All the above advice is sound, but do not let it put you off.
I also have a 500SL and the V12 engine is in a different league.....generally people who put you off a V12 have never owned one.

You have been very fortunate with yours compared to others that I know of but even then, that car was not without expensive repairs prior to you buying it.

There is no dispute that the engines is a very smooth one, but the overall comparison should be in the driving experience and running the cars (noting also that there are huge differences between the driving experience between a C140 and a R129, irrespective of engine size).

The question for the original poster is: what do you want from the car. Drive them and see but I will be surprised if you think there is a massive difference between an S500 and an S600 coupe in the performance, driving experience or general overall experience. The comparison is not a C180 to an S600 - I would be interested to know what exactly an S500 is truely lacking to an S600 to offset the maintenance issues, cost and relative unreliabilty of the V12.

I may not be an owner of a Mercedes V12 (although have owned a BMW v12) but I have driven enough of them to make, I submit, an informed comparison to an S500 and four times in a row, I have gone for the V8.

You are also looking at a much older car than SL300-24's so there is much higher likelihood of something expensive going wrong.

In my years of owning the uberbarges, I have not had any Mercedes mechanic recommend the V12 over the V8 (in fact, it has been the contrary); various specialists have also advocated the V8 cars over the V12's and across the forums you will (overall) find the same recommendations.

SL300-24 advocates the V12; I recommend the V8 so up to you to drive both, do some research, find out repair costs and make an informed decision.

A certain respected company informed me that in their opinion, while the V12's cars had excellent performance, the V8 cars (in CL, S and SL guise) were the better package overall and more reliable. That company is AMG.

I am not going to disagree with them.

BTW, if you want a smooth engine, try an LS400.

 

[SL300-24]

The point that I was trying to make was that if you see a V12 for sale and you like the car, do not be afraid of the engine.
If it sounds good, leaks no oil, and the car drives well it is probably a sound buy. I have mates with S500's and the fuel consumption may, when new have been better on the 500's but on a 10-15 year old car both of which are hardly frugal, theres not that much difference.
Sure there are more things that can potentally go wrong on the V12, however having spoken to many owners, and my mate (MBTECHNICIAN on here) they seem to be a very robust engine.

Regarding my own car, yes it has a full Mercedes History and has had a new gearbox which cost £4.5k, but this, as you know was probably caused by the previous owner knocking it into neutral at every set of traffic lights and then putting it into drive and accelerating away before it had properly selected gear. This would I suspect have happened if the car was an S500 or even an S320.
Sure you are taking a chance when buying an old car be it V8 or V12, but if you go for the V12 you are buying into a much more exclusive drive. Get a good indy on your side whichever one you buy. Whether it is worth upgrading from a 500 to a 600 is debateable, I would go for the best condition (at the price) car and take whichever of the two engine types it comes with.

BTW Setanta my reply regarding people giving advice never having owned a V12 was not directed at you in any way, and I apologise if you thought It was.

 

[219]

I have no direct experience of the V12 , but considered buying one , and a W140 in general , before I bought my W126 500SEL .

I was put off the W140 by horror stories of relatively poor build quality and reliability compared to the W126 from numerous sources who had 'upgraded' from the earlier model then regretted it and from one gentleman local to me who had gone through THREE W140 V12's before giving up and getting an S500 . Not to mention the early W140 600SEL that was filling up beside me and sounded like a cement mixer with a bag of spanners inside when it eventually fired up after several seconds of cranking - it may have just been a poorly maintained car , of course .

I have had no regrets with the 500 in my year and a bit and 16,000 miles of ownership .

 

[j@stuttgart p]

The best thinh to do is to get it inspected by a specialist that is near where you live so you know you are not buying a dog.

If you are serious i would highly recomend this too, had a few inspections done on Porsches i have sold, if the car is clean and good the seller will not mind .