Mercedes Benz of Glasgow

[Dryce]

Your service which should have allegedly cost £259 will include the latest service upgrades and any technical advisories which might have been circulated by Mercedes-Benz.

Wife just had her R170 quoted for a B starting at £460. I reckon after they phone to say it needs plugs the cost will be £600+.

So it's it's not going to the dealer.

I like our E-class and being a complex, electronic minefield, it should always be serviced by folks that know what they are doing and these service bulletins MUST be carried out (must might be a bit strong)

To a point I agree - in principle.

But harshly throw the logic the other way. You're saying that you should use a dealer because apparently MB didn't design and make the car properly in the first place.

I think you should make a call based on what you're comfortable with.

I now use an indy because I'm more comfortable with the fact that I see the people who work on my car - they appear to work the problem as opposed to just ringing up to authorise swapping parts. And they take a bit more trouble to explain what they propose to do. Is it as shiny and comfortable? No. Do they provide a courtesy car? No. But then you don't pay for these either. They wash the car but don't valet it. It's my choice to pay for that elsewhere. But then they don't stuff a bottle of oil in my boot and try and charge for it. Nor do they unecessarily replace (and charge for) the screenwash.

I'm comfortable with all of that.

 

[glojo]

But harshly throw the logic the other way. You're saying that you should use a dealer because apparently MB didn't design and make the car properly in the first place.

We are all entitled to our opinions and you raise a very good point.

The only experience\knowledge I have is that one of our neighbours owned (note owned) a top of the range Jaguar saloon, one day he wasdriving along the M4 and the thing went into limp mode. He pulled onto the hard shoulder and a recovery vehicle transported his vehicle to the nearest Jaguar dealership.The vehicle was inspected and no fault found and hey presto the car worked perfectly. The next day on the M5 the thing did the same thing again....Another flatbed truck,but this time it went to the dealership at Exeter.

The car was examined and the technician informed the owner that the car needed a software upgrade... £450 please!!!!! The car was not even two years old; my neighbour was not impressed and suggested this was a warranty issue. "No sir, software upgradesare not coveredby the warranty!"


My neighbour is not someone who is short of a bob or two, so the money was insignificant. He paid up, drove around the corner to the Mercedes-Benz Dealership and bought their S-class demonstrator. The Jaguar stayed at Exter andhe drove home with a top of the range S-class.

I have logged into a site that publishestechical bulletins that get forwarded to main dealers and yes all cars should be perfect, butguess what? They are not, and even the beloved Lexus suffers from problems.

Show me the perfect marque and I will buy it tomorrow, so yesall cars shouldbe perfect, but in my opinion... That is never going to happen.

Years ago if I bought a Mercedes and two months later the manufacturer bought out an improvement, then tough. There was no way my car would get that modification,that was just how it was.

Now my car was manufactured in January 2004... In March 2004 the COMAND was upgraded to play Mp3's. guess what? The next timemy car went in for somework it had a FREE upgrade and now playsMp3s. WELL DONE MERCEDES-Bez.

That is my take on this

 

[Dryce]

My neighbour is not someone who is short of a bob or two, so the money was insignificant. He paid up, drove around the corner to the Mercedes-Benz Dealership and bought their S-class demonstrator. The Jaguar stayed at Exter andhe drove home with a top of the range S-class.

He was mugged.

The fact that he was mugged doesn't justify advising people to pay off the would be muggers. It just encourages them to mug those that don't pay protection money in order to demonstrate to the others the benefits of compliance with their racket.

 

[Rory]

The car was examined and the technician informed the owner that the car needed a software upgrade... £450 please!!!!! The car was not even two years old; my neighbour was not impressed and suggested this was a warranty issue. "No sir, software upgradesare not coveredby the warranty!"

I'm not saying that didn't happen, but it's wrong. If a software upgrade is needed due to a fault then it has to be done under warranty. What dealers won't do (as on MB and the 7 speed box upgrades) is automatically do every available software change for the sake of it - they're ususally only done in response to specific customer complaints, ie, the box is jerky.

And £450??? Where does that come from.

 

[st4]

Wife just had her R170 quoted for a B starting at £460. I reckon after they phone to say it needs plugs the cost will be £600+.

So it's it's not going to the dealer.



To a point I agree - in principle.

But harshly throw the logic the other way. You're saying that you should use a dealer because apparently MB didn't design and make the car properly in the first place.

I think you should make a call based on what you're comfortable with.

I now use an indy because I'm more comfortable with the fact that I see the people who work on my car - they appear to work the problem as opposed to just ringing up to authorise swapping parts. And they take a bit more trouble to explain what they propose to do. Is it as shiny and comfortable? No. Do they provide a courtesy car? No. But then you don't pay for these either. They wash the car but don't valet it. It's my choice to pay for that elsewhere. But then they don't stuff a bottle of oil in my boot and try and charge for it. Nor do they unecessarily replace (and charge for) the screenwash.

I'm comfortable with all of that.

Which indie do you use? I was impressed by hart motors and the cars he was working on were all decent (03 plate S class, 55 plate SLK, Audi A6, E39 5 series, a 124).

They steam cleaned mine too (but now normal service has resumed as she has half a field on the paintwork and inside ain't much better )

 

[Dryce]

Which indie do you use?

T J O'Neill.

 

[glojo]

He was mugged.

The fact that he was mugged doesn't justify advising people to pay off the would be muggers. It just encourages them to mug those that don't pay protection money in order to demonstrate to the others the benefits of compliance with their racket.

How on earth can you say he was'mugged'???

He is no fool (I know him) He would not just lay down and hand over money without justification. He was told software upgradeswere not covered by warranty... He was then shown the relevant facts, so perhaps he was a mug... A mug for buying a marque that does not offer free upgrades.

Show me one Independantgarage that gets the technical service bulletins issued by the manufacturer and I will willingly take my modern car their.

We have excellent independants who carry out first rate work and I will proudly recommend them, but if I want all the techical upgradescarried out on my vehicle then I have to be mugged.

Oh and I pay Mercedes-Benz £50 per month for my serviceplus contract and boy do I feel 'mugged'

It was the best decision I ever made regarding servicing a motor vehicleand if an indy were to offer something similar, then I would take it, but it would have to offer every single option I am now receiving.

 

[Dryce]

Software doesn't wear out. It is designed and then deployed. If you need to upgrade it to fix a problem that implies the original software was inherently faulty.

Which is why I think he was mugged.

Now clearly there may be more to this but if a dealer claims my car can be fixed by a software upgrade then there's going to be an interesting discussion on the matter and it will take a lot to convince me that I'm not being charged to fix an inherent design fault.

Oh and I pay Mercedes-Benz £50 per month for my serviceplus contract and boy do I feel 'mugged'

No, they probably feel they're being mugged

But for those who managed to get onto Service+ in the good old days before it became more expensive and then got canned the balance of comfort on the matter of dealer vs indy is quite different.

 

[glojo]

Software doesn't wear out. It is designed and then deployed. If you need to upgrade it to fix a problem that implies the original software was inherently faulty.

Which is why I think he was mugged.

Please do not misunderstand me,
I think my neighbour was 'mugged' but he had no choice.They would not release the car until he paid the bill. It was a software upgrade and it cost what it cost.

I understand what you are saying regarding software that corrects software but I guess a better wording might be that the software improves something rather than fixes it.

My neighbour only keeps,his car for three years and I note he has replaced the S-class and has now got a new 7 series BMW but his wife has just replaced her SLK with another new SLK, so at least he has not completely deserted the marque

But for those who managed to get onto Service+ in the good old days before it became more expensive and then got canned the balance of comfort on the matter of dealer vs indy is quite different.

It is certainly excellent value for money

To put my point across about using main dealers as opposed to an idependant.

These are bulletins issued to Jaguar main dealerships that relate to customers complaining about gearbox issues:


TSBs - Technical Service Bulletins from Jaguar and BMW E60 and E63/64 .
TSB number Summary of Bulletin TSB R-513
recall On certain passenger vehicles equipped with automatic transmissions, with the forward gear selected and the vehicle stationary or in a forward motion, the gearbox could potentially select reverse gear, without indication.
Internal : With the vehicle stationary, and Drive (D) is selected, the transmission may select Reverse (R) if there is insufficient oil pressure in the transmission and/or a sticking valve within the transmission. If this condition is
present, the vehicle will default to Mechanical Limp Home mode and the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) will illuminate.
TSB S307-17

Drifting of program for adaptive learning. Now involves both engine AND gearbox reprogramming to address customer concern of harsh transmission shifts, particularly 3 - 2, 2 -1 roll out and 1-2 up-shifts
The adaptive shift strategy drifting over time causing higher than normal clutch pressures.
To eliminate the issues outlined in the summary the transmission adaptions must be cleared and the Transmission Control Module (TCM) and the Engine Control Module (ECM) should be re-configured using the Worldwide Diagnostic System (WDS) with software release JTP 759/35 or later. Should a customer express concern, follow the Service Instruction outlined below.
TSB S307-15 This Technical Bulletin has been issued to address customer concerns of a squeal or squeak noise heard during gearshifts under acceleration. TSB S307-14 This Technical Bulletin has been issued to address a customer concern of a surge in excess of 150rpm during engine warm up, at a temperature of 30°C to 50°C and at a vehicle speed in the region of 40mph (64.3kph) to 60mph (96.5kph). TSB S307-13 Model VIN 3.0L
4.2L NA
4.2L S/C 3FM45255-3FM83148
3HM45255-3HM84213
31M45255-31M88335 Some of the above vehicles may exhibit the MIL illuminating with Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P0741 (Torque Converter Clutch Stuck Open) logged in the Transmission Control Module (TCM) and Engine Control Module (ECM).
It has been found that there is a fault with the clutch lining of the torque converter. A modified torque converter is now available to resolve the concern.
TSB S307-12 This Technical Bulletin has been issued to address customer complaints of an automatic transmission driveline clonk/knocking when changing gear from reverse to drive, fifth to fourth or second to first. TSB S307-11 Growling Noise In 4th Gear During Warmup – V6 Engines - ZF6HP26 Transmission – Reconfigure TCM - 2003 MY-ON S-TYPE 3.0L

Some 2003 MY-ON 3.0L S-TYPE vehicles may experience a growling noise during warmup when the vehicle is in 4th gear. This noise is caused by the torque converter. The TCM can be reprogrammed to solve this concern.
TSB S307-10 Owners of some 2003 MY S-TYPE vehicles, within the VIN range M44998-M81000, may experience the following issues:

• Transmission Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) illuminating and Diagnostic Trouble
• Code (DTC)P0606 logged.
• Transmission hesitating and then thumping into gear from 2 – 1..
• Transmission judder in second gear.

To eliminate these issues,the Transmission Control Module (TCM) should be
reprogrammed using the Worldwide Diagnostic System (WDS) with software release JTP 759/23 or later.
TSB S307-09 A/T - Harsh Shifts/MIL ON When in Reverse, DTC P0736 TSB S303-19 This Technical Bulletin has been issued to address customer drivability concerns of rough Idle, restricted performance and poor harsh transmission shifts. There is also the possibility of Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC) stored in the Engine Control Module (ECM), these codes being P0174, P0171, P0301 to P0308, P1316 and P1582. VIN M45255 to M92677 TSB S100-10 Drivetrain - Thump From Rear of Vehicle TSB S204-11 This Technical Bulletin has been issued to address customer concerns of:
· On manual vehicles, a thump from the rear of the vehicle when changing gear.
· On automatic vehicles, thump from the rear when accelerating after a period of deceleration. TSB S412-05 A/C - Climate Control Locks-Up on 23 Degrees Centigrade. TSB S211-04 v2 This Technical Bulletin has been issued to address the possibility of a squeaking noise being emitted from the power steering system. TSB S419-14 Navigation System - Telematics(R) Issues TSB S501-09 Body - Water Leaks Diagnosis TSB S204-12 Excess wear on the inner edge of the the front tyre treads. Modified toe specification. TSB S204-S150 Campaign - Rear Wheel Alignment Inspection/Adjustment - Check/reset rear toe TSB R-167
recall On certain passenger vehicles, the electronic park brake module, which controls the application of the parking brake, may unintentionally apply the handbrake without any indication or warning to the driver.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No specialist or independant garage would get these and EVERY car manufacturer issues them. They make diagnosis easier and yes the main dealer is very expensive, but we could argue that thanks to these bulletins; the main dealer is aware of these issues and canvery quickly rectify the problem.

The independant has no idea of what might be a simple procedure and will have to use their skills and experience (trial and error) tofix our cars. I have nothing against independants and they can be FAR, far more knowledgable than any main dealer techician, but the main dealer has the TSB database to fall back on and that isnot to be dismissed

If I had an older Mercedes it would be cared for by Coverale II an excellent local independant

 

[Rory]

but we could argue that thanks to these bulletins; the main dealer is aware of these issues and canvery quickly rectify the problem.

I think you're making a bold assumption that just because the manufacturer issues these bulletins, then the mechanic servicing your car will be aware of them.

hawk20 regularly posts a link to an extensive list of W220 TSBs and that's apparently had one of the shortest lists. When you think of all the models MB does, they must be getting huge numbers of these bulletins. I took the one to my dealership about the drift left issue on W203 and they seemed amazed (but still took no notice of it ).

 

[LTD]

If software upgrades are available and can pro-activly improve your car or solve underlying issues that are not detected, why are these updates not carried out to all vehicles as part of an MB service ?

At least this way, all the cars should be running the same software setup - i.e. best possible available. Similar to may computer operating systems.

 

[Rory]

If software upgrades are available and can pro-activly improve your car or solve underlying issues that are not detected, why are these updates not carried out to all vehicles as part of an MB service ?

At least this way, all the cars should be running the same software setup - i.e. best possible available. Similar to may computer operating systems.

Same reason you're not supposed to keep updating video and wifi etc drivers etc on your PC - if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Also the software updates can take ages - "flashing" something sounds quick, but they have to connect the car up (often to the factory) to get the update and the process of updating embedded systems tends to be pretty slow.

 

[glojo]

Same reason you're not supposed to keep updating video and wifi etc drivers etc on your PC - if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Also the software updates can take ages - "flashing" something sounds quick, but they have to connect the car up (often to the factory) to get the update and the process of updating embedded systems tends to be pretty slow.

I have no idea what you mean but these upgrades most certainly do not take ages.

If it aint broke do not fix it....

Thanks to an upgrade the COMAND on early 211's now play Mp3's. That is an easy example but there have been countless upgrades. My thoughts are that all the improvements are well worth having but it is each to their own.

I accept that there is a chance that a technician might not keepabreast of allthis ervice bulletins but they are documented and when a car goes in for servicing then the vehicle details are checked to see what updates have been done and what is outstanding.

 

[grober]

I can see both sides of this argument. I have a question- Do Mercedes Benz charge their dealerships for the software "updates" or are they free?? With a spare part I assume the dealer buys the part and sells it on to the customer ( with an appropriate profit margin and handling/ordering charge of course!) but there is a finite cost to them to obtain it in the first place. I refer here to updates that correct or improve "fault" conditions in the original software rather than increased functionality which you might regard in a different light? In terms of the additional labour costs one assumes the car is already connected to the dealer's electronic systems as part of the standard service operational checks so a few judicious key strokes are all that's required to start any download?

 

[Edmac]

Can I ask are the guys recommended using MB Glasgow North or South branch, i.e. City Centre or Giffnock? I've had nothing but rotten and incompetent service from one of them and for my service later this month I'm considering driving to Grangemouth MB to get away from the Stratstone group so would be happy to hear which branch you guys recommend and who should I ask for in particular!

I must say my experience with one of these two is the same! Staggering lack of interest from the sales staff and complete apathy from the service receptionists. I too am considering Perth/Grangemouth for my next workshop contact - might even be worth planning a trip to Brooklands - anywhere other than Stratstone!

 

[redspecial2000]

I've had nothing but trouble with both Grangemouth and Perth. They do not want to know you unless you revisit them every 2 or 3 years with a big wad of cash to buy a new car from them. You will see my other posts about issues with them both.... now use Merparts for my servicing and parts needs- I happily drive down there to get a bunch of guys that actually care for my car.

 

[Dryce]

I must say my experience with one of these two is the same! Staggering lack of interest from the sales staff and complete apathy from the service receptionists. I too am considering Perth/Grangemouth for my next workshop contact - might even be worth planning a trip to Brooklands - anywhere other than Stratstone!

We dealt with MB Glasgow on and off for about three years and they were fine. Both sales and service.

Once Stratstone took over they seem to have taken a dive.

Last couple of interactions with them were a bit depressing and we haven't been back for a couple of years.

 

[rf065]

I've used Mercedes Giffnock & Hamilton, both Stratstone & next to useless, then tried Perth, same story. Now using an indie, cannot justify MB pricing for incomplete sevicing.

Russ

 

[st4]

I've used Mercedes Giffnock & Hamilton, both Stratstone & next to useless, then tried Perth, same story. Now using an indie, cannot justify MB pricing for incomplete sevicing.

Russ

I am saying nothing, nothing nothing and nothing. That is because I cannot think of anything positive to say about MB Glasgow.

 

[Mcnasty]

I've had nothing but trouble with both Grangemouth and Perth. They do not want to know you unless you revisit them every 2 or 3 years with a big wad of cash to buy a new car from them. You will see my other posts about issues with them both.... now use Merparts for my servicing and parts needs- I happily drive down there to get a bunch of guys that actually care for my car.

I used MB Grangemouth a couple of weeks ago for a service and had no issues, they advised I had a broken rear spring and both should be replaced, and that I should have the brake fluid changed on top of the 'D' service charged at £219 Incl. I declined the offer of repairing both rear springs at a cost of £380 Incl. and had them replaced at an Indy in Livingston for £228.

So overall a good experience, they pick up the faults and I then have the choice where the work is carried out.