Mercedes Diesels...off the pace??

[Palmball]

Might seem an odd thread coming from me, but I am genuinely interested to know what people think of the current top of the range MB diesels, particularly the 350CDi's.

On the face of it, compared to BMWs 300hp'ish '35d and '40d engined cars and Jaguar Land Rovers 280hp'ish 3.0 V6, the 231hp (I think?) MB 350 CDi now appears off the pace.

Has anyone compared the engines in these cars to be able share any thoughts on how the MB compares and is anyone aware of an imminent new diesel engine to allow MB to compete with the BMW / JLR units?

 

[flango]

Wasn't aware MB diesels have ever been on the pace, Beemer diesels are far superior and always have been whatever the size. BM 520d beats any 2.0 litre MB, 530d beats any 3.0 litre MB. By the time the new MB engine is introduced BMW will already have introduced there new diesels the new 2.0 litre bmw is sub 99 g/km co2, MB will still be nowhere near. Sorry I know its an MB forum but diesel wise BM are the market leaders.

 

[moonloops]

Hard to beat the BMW x35 twin turbo diesels

 

[Animal Mother]

I'd rather be off the pace than be replacing turbos every 30k miles a la BMW.

 

[flango]

Hard to beat the BMW x35 twin turbo diesels

Agreed our company driver usually picks me up in a 535d accelaration is awesome, torque unbelieveable. Very close to an M5 in performance if remapped.

 

[Palmball]

BMW I understand...they are far ahead. But to be so far behind JLR in that category is embarrassing, especially if they have nothing new to respond with!

 

[flango]

I'd rather be off the pace than be replacing turbos every 30k miles a la BMW.

535d we run has 162k miles and never had a minutes trouble with the turbo's. Never seen a twin turbo in our garage with turbo problems either, swirl flaps on small engines yes turbo's not IMHO

 

[Animal Mother]

320d turbos fail quite regularly AFAIK.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

It was certainly a chance missed from the people that invented the diesel engine.... I have drove a 535d and it is quick, but in a BMW way if that makes sense? But my friend, who has a pick of 3 cars between himself and the other 2 directors, those cars being a 535d, an E350 CDi sport and the XF TDV6, they always argue over which one of them takes the Merc home on the Friday...... I rest my case your honour.....

 

[flango]

320d turbos fail quite regularly AFAIK.

Swirl flaps eaten by the engine yes common, never seen a failure on a 320d ever we have one customer who runs a 520d same engine done 280k on original turbo only known problem on these cars is DPF and occasional injector problems AFAIK

 

[NISFAN]

Do you not think ALL MB engines, Petrol included are a little behind? Power output/cc has never been a MB strong point.

 

[flango]

TDV6, they always argue over which one of them takes the Merc home on the Friday...... I rest my case your honour.....

Thats Cuedos nothing to do with performance. I would agree the MB has more class than the rest of them put together.

 

[flango]

Do you not think ALL MB engines, Petrol included are a little behind? Power output/cc has never been a MB strong point.

Petrols are not too bad and up there,I would rather drive a 180k than a BM 318.Unless you compare them to jap stuff then bhp per litre is pittyful Nissan/Subaru/Mitsubishi different league altogether

 

[NISFAN]

BM 320D's had a Turbo failure problem in the early E46's that started the rumours. This issue has been sorted, and as far as I am aware, BM Turbo's are now no less reliable than any other.

 

[timskemp]

The power race between BMW and MB (and to a lesser extent Audi) swaps places on a regular basis. Don't forget that in the German market there are E420Cdi models which are very very quick, and really for the UK market only Audi are pushing any V8 diesels.

There's plenty of upgrades to make the 350Cdi engine as quick as the BMWs. But as standard they're designed for longevity and driveability, even my aging 270 has a wide spread of power across the rev range that the more modern high-boost engines just don't have.

The Alpina engines are the most comparable, they drive really nicely.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Thats Cuedos nothing to do with performance. I would agree the MB has more class than the rest of them put together.

The daft thing is when Mercedes brought out the 3222cc diesel engine, they actually DOWNTUNED , fearing the bhp/torque figures would make their petrol performance cars look bad. That engine is more than comfortable at 300 bhp, so why do this when it would have made them a ground-breaker once again???

 

[Alex]

Not so off pace. My C350 with Kleemann chip has about 280 HP. Same as some top end 3 series bimmers. And being completely blacked out it looks so much better!

 

[flango]

BM 320D's had a Turbo failure problem in the early E46's that started the rumours. This issue has been sorted, and as far as I am aware, BM Turbo's are now no less reliable than any other.

Thats true on the pre 2003 cars but most were misdiagnosed as turbo problems when in fact the true problem was the injectors. But the turbos did have oil seal and bearing problems but was sorted after 2003.

 

[flango]

Not so off pace. My C350 with Kleemann chip has about 280 HP. Same as some top end 3 series bimmers. And being completely blacked out it looks so much better!

We map the BM 335d to 326 bhp and 670 Nm torque and guarantee it, no problems whatsoever

We can map the MB C350 to 280 hp which is the max it will take at the same torque as the BMW (670 Nm) so BM wins again?

 

[NISFAN]

Petrols are not too bad and up there,I would rather drive a 180k than a BM 318.Unless you compare them to jap stuff then bhp per litre is pittyful Nissan/Subaru/Mitsubishi different league altogether

You think? the new 180K is supercharged, 1600cc and only 156bhp. The supercharged mini cooper s engine produced more power some years ago. Golf 1.4TSi pushes out 170bhp from a 1.4.

Not to mention say the 6.2 litre V8. 450 - 507bhp, whereas the BMW M5 engine produces the same 507bhp from only 5.0 litres.

Merc engines have never been great power to cc wise.