Mercedes W114 250 Coupe - help!

[ShinyF1]

There's an article about the W114 Coupe in the latest Merc Enthusiast magazine - not sure how detailed a write up it is. It features a nice metallic blue 250 with the old metal wing mirrors.

Fond memories of my Dad's 1973 280E come flooding back.

 

[Charles Morgan]

As usual its the detail. Those thin white line sidewalls make all the difference.

Won't be needing those with 15 inch wheels and trims, plus lowered suspension.

I really like it. It's a lovely perky period colour.

 

[KSD]

There's an article about the W114 Coupe in the latest Merc Enthusiast magazine - not sure how detailed a write up it is. It features a nice metallic blue 250 with the old metal wing mirrors.

Fond memories of my Dad's 1973 280E come flooding back.

Currently advertised for £15k on car and classic.

 

[Charles Morgan]

A few more of that lovely coupe in Horizontblau 304. I think it's really really lovely, a pretty colour, like that flat light green coupe, and makes the car jolly. Time to break the news to Dan and Matt, thank heavens for broken limbs...

 

[Charles Morgan]

Blow it. A prize fool has just damaged the gearbox - snapped off what I think is the spline of the reverse thing - you can see the broken stub in the middle of the three splines here

and the remnants left behind on the lever

Does anyone with EPC access know the part number? If so, is it the same as the 4 speed manual (boxes are so cheap they could be used as a part source).

Could it be repaired?

 

[Bellow]

Repairing that will be a right pain - due to the proximity of the oil seal. Chamfered/beveled then welded would repair the shaft but the weld will encroach on the sealing surface and would require a high level 'finish' to avoid a leak.
The only other thing I can think of would involve machining tapers - messy, and not guaranteed to work.
A replacement part if it can be obtained, but that will still necessitate a gearbox stripdown and rebuild.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Well, the cover plate has the same part number as a 4 speed, but I have a horrible suspicion this is a unique part and finding any five speed is an expensive nightmare. I am so annoyed with myself.

 

[Bellow]

If the 5sp box is an adaptation from the 4sp unit then chances are the component (shaft and selector fork most likely) will be the same.
First clue possibly is if reverse gear is located at the same position on the gate. Second would be cutaway drawings of both boxes. Part number best of all! 5sp boxes were frequently grown from the existing production 4sp box by many manufacturers. I'd be confident that a 4sp could be culled for the part. If all else fails there is always the auto option - with the correct amount of pedals in the footwell. One for each foot and not one more!

 

[Charles Morgan]

Well, I have the auto box, all the levers/vacuum tubes except for the box to throttle linkage (which Colin has), and the pedal box, plus of course the correct propshaft. I only need to create the kickdown switch and loom and deal with the ignition lock if not in park.

However, the manual is a rare beast so I'd like to retain the option. If only I hadn't mislaid my EPC access!

 

[Bellow]

Someone with EPC access will be along soon no doubt...

 

[grober]

Best I can do is its known as a shifting shaft [ applies to reverse and possibly ?? fifth gear]part no
A 115 260 12 38 I am inclined to believe its the same on the 4 speed box but obviously there will be other internal differences.

MERCEDES G 1/18-4/5,45 [711.100] MB EUROPA: 26 TRANSMISSION: 250 SHIFTING ROD,SHIFTING PARTS IL. 1

I think yours will be what is known as a flat iron box [ not getrag] with an alum bellhousing found on the W115/W114 and early w123 models

I believe this is one where its probably necessary to remove that selector plate from the 5 speed and compare it to a donor plate from an old 4 speed to get a definitive answer.

 

[Bellow]

Best I can do is its known as a shifting shaft [ applies to reverse and possibly ?? fifth gear]part no
A 115 260 12 38 I am inclined to believe its the same on the 4 speed box but obviously there will be other internal differences.

If that same shaft is used to select 5th then I'd expect it to be different from the 4sp counterpart. Not to be defeatist, it may be possible to cut from the (damaged) 5sp part the required extra fork and weld it to a 4sp item.

I think yours will be what is known as a flat iron box [ not getrag] with an alum bellhousing found on the W115/W114 and early w123 models

.

I thought the only appeal in retaining a manual transmission was that it was a Getrag box. If it is a 'flat iron' MB box I'd get some feedback re shift quality before going further. A recalcitrant gearbox will mar the best of cars and my suspicion is that MB made their manual boxes back then with the idea they would make taxi drivers work hard for their living. They certainly applied that thinking to the vans that shared (diesel) engines with the W123.

 

[Charles Morgan]

It's a box worth preserving, if nothing else, it is original to the car and it has value for a Pagoda conversion to 5 speed.

However, while this was the outcome of sheer carelessness on my part, it makes the decision manual vs auto easy. It has to be auto, a decision I'd kind of reached over the weekend, driving in heavy traffic is just so much easier.

 

[grober]

This gearshift picture of Charles's car encourages me to think that the shifting shaft A 1152601238 will be the same in both 4/5 speed boxes of that type as it will engage on the same detent [ follower] on an internal selector shaft/rod . There would have to be a possible extra set of selector forks on the shaft/rod of course to select 5th gear . As I said only way to find this out would to remove the selector plate?

 

[Bellow]

This gearshift picture of Charles's car encourages me to think that the shifting shaft A 1152601238 will be the same in both 4/5 speed boxes of that type as it will engage on the same detent [ follower] on an internal selector shaft/rod . There would have to be a possible extra set of selector forks on the shaft/rod of course to select 5th gear . As I said only way to find this out would to remove the selector plate?

I suspect you are correct. The 5th gear selector part could probably be welded to the 4sp part though without much effort.....

It's a box worth preserving, if nothing else, it is original to the car and it has value for a Pagoda conversion to 5 speed.

....which if done would create a saleable box for the above. Alternatively, a Pagoda owner could undertake the required modification.

However, while this was the outcome of sheer carelessness on my part, it makes the decision manual vs auto easy. It has to be auto, a decision I'd kind of reached over the weekend, driving in heavy traffic is just so much easier.

A decision (re)made then! Easier in traffic yes, but for me it is the elimination of the clutch pedal (I don't mind having to effect the gear change by hand) and the opportunity to left-foot brake that I favour.

 

[Bellow]

The decision to go with the auto box CM - will that require a change of diff? If so, do you have the appropriate diff? (I am assuming that 5th gear in the manual box is an overdrive and that the 4sp auto has a direct drive top gear).

 

[Charles Morgan]

No, same diff with same ratio. Just needs a different propshaft. Certainly the 5th is an overdrive (0.87) on the manual, 4th is 1:1 on the auto.

I'll take the plate off today as long as the sun remains out, been out at Simeon's delivering parts etc.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Ok, inside of gearbox, but could someone explain why I can only count 4 gears (an answer that suggests I'm a clueless moron is adequate).

 

[Bellow]

Possibly 5th gear(s) hidden from view toward the tailshaft (compatible with being grown from the 4sp box) or, if input and output shafts are co-axial, 4th gear has no gears but is direct drive.
Or...it is a 4sp box with a 5sp knob.

 

[Charles Morgan]

The damaged shaft

The rear of the damaged shaft

An undamaged shaft

The rear of an undamaged shaft

The observant amongst you will notice a lot about the two parts in common.