Mercedes W114 250 Coupe - help!

[Dieselman]

Are the brakes seized on due to corrosion.

You should start a new thread, this one is for Charles's project car.

 

[Charles Morgan]

The bolt sheared because the rust was tightening the grip of the tread.

I know, I'm just trying to make excuses for my impatience and incompetence.

Right, I shall attempt a bolt drill out tomorrow. I wonder how many holes I can drill before I get to the correct line?

 

[gaz_l]

Right, I shall attempt a bolt drill out tomorrow. I wonder how many holes I can drill before I get to the correct line?

Charles,

I've drilled out more screws than I care to remember, courtesy of my old company's fondness for putting stainless steel screws into aluminium housings and then exposing them to the elements for years on end..

My best advice is as follows: firstly, buy an automatic centre punch; specifically, one like this:

https://www.cromwell.co.uk/KEN5181710K

Use this to make a dimple in the centre of the broken fixing by punching it in repeatedly - 3 or 4 punches should be enough. Then follow up by using a centre drill to enlarge the dimple:

https://www.cromwell.co.uk/TTX0259973C

The advantage of a centre drill is that they don't flex, due to the enlarged shank. You can drive the direction of the dimple slightly if it's off-centre.

Then, pick a drill bit which is slightly smaller than the core diameter of the thread that you're trying to drill out, aim down the middle of the thread and drill away. A well balanced cordless drill is the tool of preference, I use an 18V Hitachi which has plenty of torque, is fairly light thanks to the lithium battery and as said has a good balance.

Of course, I probably have an advantage in the fact that I have 30 years engineering experience, also you really can't teach someone how to drill a hole orthogonally by eye. One of those things you can either do or you can't. Best of luck!

Cheers,

Gaz

 

[Charles Morgan]

One of those things you can either do or you can't.

Any bookies on here?!

Remarkably helpful, thank you Gaz.

Being me I have a cunning plan.

Tony has a fully equipped workshop including a lovely bench mounted drill and he also has 40+ years experience of this. I think I'll ask him for help, and if he can't I know the odd mechanic. I think being aware of my limitations is one of the keys to success...

 

[Charles Morgan]

This morning was case conference time on the front bumper with my other neighbour Tony (let us call him Tony2, although I normally refer to him as Tony1 but it would confuse too much here as Tony, the mechanic, is the first person discussed here). Tony2 is the retired village policeman who married the widow of a local scrap Mr Big (who was bumped off by a local putative scrap Mr Big. Iver is definitely bandit country) after he had been the attending liaison officer. He had then taken over the running of the breakers yard in which time he has come across enough lumps of corrosion (add in his narrowboat and yacht) to recognise when work is futile. The main front bumper (there is one large bumper with two smaller bumpers beneath on either side with space in the middle for the reg plate) has a large corroded section on view in the middle and the central seam of the bumper is heavily corroded, which has pushed out the bumper rubber badly.

To cut a long story short, he thinks and I have no reason to disagree, that to refurbish said bumper will require so much work which will also make re-chroming inevitable (it will certainly need a new cross member and possibly new rubbers) - that buying a decent secondhand one would be far cheaper. It will also make the other chrome stick out far more if that isn't re-chromed. Paradoxically while the rear cross-member is heavily corroded, the bumper itself seems fine.

Pulling back the rubbers and having a look when it was cleaned up was not that encouraging. I think he might be right.

 

[Charles Morgan]

74 Merc - if you're reading, got your pm but can't reply as your mailbox is full. Thanks - I have some things I need!

 

[74merc]

Sorry Charles, I've cleared my inbox now.

 

[Charles Morgan]

A little bit more progress. The front bumper has been separated into the main bumper and the two under-bumpers, the bolts were absolutely corroded but four days of repeated soaking with the penetrating oil and today with much difficulty (I had to turn on the bolt on one end while keeping the nut on the other side still, with the two bits of bumper moving around under torque) but both bolts came out and so I can start the drilling out of the one that sheared, and the rust treatment on both - one a bit crusty, the other almost completely fine.

I'm also soaking the bolts on the rear bumper strengthener - this is corroded beyond repair. I can get a replacement from Germany but again, given the work, it might be cheaper to find a decent used bumper and save all the work of trying to get six bolts out in places, four of which will need sockets to get into the space. Not looking forward to those, I'll just keep soaking away!

 

[219]

Charles , apart from using the penetrating oil , if you have a blowtorch , making sure to take suitable precautions ( not using both at once ! ) if you heat the nuts up so that they expand a little bit , it might make things easier to take apart .

Best done outside , away from other things that might catch fire , and a quick waft of the flame across the bolts so that any residual penetrant will burn off harmlessly .

 

[Bellow]

And, access permitting, the one guaranteed method of nut removal - grinder with a cutting disc. Now there are discs a mere 1mm thick, near surgical precision is possible.

 

[Charles Morgan]

The only thing that stands between me and the grinder is the fact the bolt protrudes from the bumper through the strengthener and the nut is fastened into the bumper. I'm worried that the bolt is an integral part of the bumper (I'd need to get the rubber off to see - that has its risks too).

 

[Charles Morgan]

This is what I'm up against on the rear bumper. I've had a look under the bumper rubber and it looks as though the bolts that the strengthener is secured to are part of the bumper. This is what these nuts and bolts in the strengthener look like:

The bracket holding the bumper assembly to the rear of the car are also pretty challenging. For ease of working it is fortunate that these brackets could be easily removed from the strengthener which has largely ceased to exist!

Oddly the rear bumper itself has little corrosion apart from cosmetic.

 

[Minz]

This morning was case conference time on the front bumper with my other neighbour Tony (let us call him Tony2, although I normally refer to him as Tony1 but it would confuse too much here as Tony, the mechanic, is the first person discussed here). Tony2 is the retired village policeman who married the widow of a local scrap Mr Big (who was bumped off by a local putative scrap Mr Big. Iver is definitely bandit country) after he had been the attending liaison officer. He had then taken over the running of the breakers yard in which time he has come across enough lumps of corrosion (add in his narrowboat and yacht) to recognise when work is futile

.

Is this a section from Midsomer Murders?

 

[grober]

Attachment Sheet Metal | 250CE MB w114 Coupé spare parts

 

[Charles Morgan]

Beneath the serene surface of this quiet little village nestling in the foothills of the Chiltern Hills bubble ancient feuds and frauds, dastardly deeds of murder and manslaughter, scrap stealing and piebald ponies let loose on lonely lanes. 'Tis border country, where the Met ends and the Thames Valley begins, with Surrey force but a mile distant. Bodies have been dumped into the River Colne to find their own graves, to the east in Iver, to the west in London, neither the priority of the investigating force. At a less heinous level, the flytippers come too, bearing their loads of DFS sofas and hydroponic fluid containers for pot cultivation.

Being of Reiver and Welsh Marches stock, this is a liminal space I understand.

Anyway, Tony2 is delightfully full of tall tales, but this one is true. He did marry Maria after her husband was bumped off. The tale of the corpse washed up on the Iver banks of the Colne and the history of Maria's father, Pete the Pole, can wait for another day.

 

[Bellow]

This is what I'm up against

You are really up against it! (I couldn't bear to include the photos in the 'quote' - too hideous by far). Faced with that lot I'd be starting to wonder how the car would look bumperless!

 

[Charles Morgan]

The thought had crossed my mind! Done well it would be quite fun (and remove about 100lbs!)

 

[Bellow]

Works well on older cars where for whatever reason the car is complete behind the bumpers, the bumpers being additions - not integral to the styling. They can always be fitted at a later date....
I removed them from a 2CV I had. To find the front one acted as a damper to the very slight engine imbalance at idle caused by alternating combustion forces. The slightest shimmy that disappeared the moment the revs rose above idle.

 

[Charles Morgan]

I think that AMG above has a bespoke front, but at present I have a car with no carpets or rear seats, bumpers that are in need of a decent amount of work and the mechanical side is still a bit of a mystery. Thinking idly to myself DON"T LOOK DRUK! (inspired more than a little by this car) I wonder about fitting a like small block V8.

(Good thing I'm not a member of the official club - they'd be breaking my sword and ripping off my epaulettes at the merest thought...).

Anyway, all this bumper sorting is just the amuse bouche for the car arriving, the bodywork being the starter and the engine work the main course.

 

[grober]

According to some sources?? the W114 shares the same front subframe as the R107 so a Mercedes V8 transplant would be a possibility. [ There's something in the back of my mind about that subframe receiving some strategic re-inforcing in later R107 models so it would best to source the subframe from the V8 donor vehicle rather than the W114?? You might have a problem with the bulkhead to inner wing strut bracing altho this might be compensated for by some form of inner wing to inner wing cross bracing. Personally if you experienced engine/injection problems an upgrade to the later more powerfull 2.8 straight six with jetronic K injection would stay closer to the orginal car spec as this engine was fitted in later models??
ps I wouldn't worry about the official club attitude as the latest edition of the GAZETTE features an article about a w123 280 CE V8 conversion done by this guy http://www.marroccomercedes.co.uk/
The article does make the point attitudes might be different if the V8 was non Mercedes!