PobodY
MB Enthusiast
Doesn't water have a higher specific heat capacity than methanol? - If you were injecting a water/ethanol mix then that will reduce charge temperature, but I don't think it achieves anything as a coolant.
I did look in to methanol injection on the Nissan, but it's not really as great as they make out; for a start you really need to be controlling it with an injector to match airflow. - In theory you could achieve adiabatic boost if you can inject the water/methanol at the right ratio, but in reality you can't control it that well.
Plus if you map for methanol injection you either need to make sure you don't run out, or have a non-injection map to switch to when you do. - If you don't map for it, you don't get a significant advantage.
I did look in to methanol injection on the Nissan, but it's not really as great as they make out; for a start you really need to be controlling it with an injector to match airflow. - In theory you could achieve adiabatic boost if you can inject the water/methanol at the right ratio, but in reality you can't control it that well.
Plus if you map for methanol injection you either need to make sure you don't run out, or have a non-injection map to switch to when you do. - If you don't map for it, you don't get a significant advantage.
I looked at water methanol a while ago and the cons far outweighed the pros, not least of which was the costs involved. (Sourcing, buying, fitting, mapping etc)
You've already mentioned the proven method of split cooling (Olly at PCS may still have a system left over) which is the answer that just keeps on giving, and is a far safer method. Have a word with Acid when you're down at MSL, he'll point you in the right direction.
You've already mentioned the proven method of split cooling (Olly at PCS may still have a system left over) which is the answer that just keeps on giving, and is a far safer method. Have a word with Acid when you're down at MSL, he'll point you in the right direction.
Lee C63
MB Enthusiast
There is always the killer chiller option which would enhance a split cooling set up.
I have water methanol installed and it does drop IAT's quite a bit and gained 10bhp on Dyno when switched on. (I rarely have it turned on though to be fair).
I have water methanol installed and it does drop IAT's quite a bit and gained 10bhp on Dyno when switched on. (I rarely have it turned on though to be fair).
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If you use a water/meth mixture and spray before the throttle body (IAT1) it will help lower the intake temperatures some as well as cool down the blower. Limited effect but easy too install.
Spraying after the blower (IAT2) will reduce the charged air temps which is a more effective option but the installation requires taking the blower off and drilling the inlet manifold. Another downside is leaks could be difficult to fix due to awkward nozzle locaiton.
Pure meth will need to be mapped for as it burns much slower than petrol so unless your ECU has switchable maps (it doesn't), I wouldn't go down this route.
Spraying after the blower (IAT2) will reduce the charged air temps which is a more effective option but the installation requires taking the blower off and drilling the inlet manifold. Another downside is leaks could be difficult to fix due to awkward nozzle locaiton.
Pure meth will need to be mapped for as it burns much slower than petrol so unless your ECU has switchable maps (it doesn't), I wouldn't go down this route.
As mentioned Olly at PCS designed a nice under bonnet Ali tank for split cooling. You can split the cooling with just the little bmw reservoir, but i don't think that method is as effective. I've split my own with an under bonnet tank (decent size but plastic for testing), in the area where Olly located his. Also mentioned was the Killer Chiller, which after i've decided on the most effective Heat Exchanger, is something i would like to consider with a by-pass valve.
AngryDog - Have you monitored your Iats? If you are on it ignore me, but if not, it is really easy and cheap to get set up. For me, all the cooling Mods are pointless, unless you have an idea of how effective they are, before and after each mod.
Jimbo
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Don't take it the wrong way buddy but you really should do some reading.
There's lots of tech available out there but as Jimi rightly says, without knowing where your IATs are at, we can only guess what's right for your setup.
You can add all the cooling in the world and still heat soak like crazy after 15 mins. Do some research, track your car, data log, add a mod, repeat.
There's lots of tech available out there but as Jimi rightly says, without knowing where your IATs are at, we can only guess what's right for your setup.
You can add all the cooling in the world and still heat soak like crazy after 15 mins. Do some research, track your car, data log, add a mod, repeat.
Hey Jimbo,
No I am not monitoring them currently. Is there a way to?
Yeah, i've got a bluetooth obd2 adapter, think it's elm327. you can get them on ebay. Then there are different Apps for your phone or Tablet you can download. I use the Torque App. Cost about £10 in all for both!
Then i can just plug it in the port down under the steering wheel, when i want to monitor/test the cars iats temps etc. This is what i was talking about regarding, getting an idea of how effective different cooling methods are before and after mods. Otherwise how do you know, outside of the classic, - The cars not going into Limp mode anymore, so that's better lol.
That said, you can get wired (not bluetooth) ones to plug in, which are probably more reliable. You can check a number of things on your car live with the Torque App. Or even better, (although i've tried and failed) download a test so you have different results in a graph, iats & boost or revs or what ever you set.
Jimi
No I am not monitoring them currently. Is there a way to?
Yeah, i've got a bluetooth obd2 adapter, think it's elm327. you can get them on ebay. Then there are different Apps for your phone or Tablet you can download. I use the Torque App. Cost about £10 in all for both!
Then i can just plug it in the port down under the steering wheel, when i want to monitor/test the cars iats temps etc. This is what i was talking about regarding, getting an idea of how effective different cooling methods are before and after mods. Otherwise how do you know, outside of the classic, - The cars not going into Limp mode anymore, so that's better lol.
That said, you can get wired (not bluetooth) ones to plug in, which are probably more reliable. You can check a number of things on your car live with the Torque App. Or even better, (although i've tried and failed) download a test so you have different results in a graph, iats & boost or revs or what ever you set.
Jimi
Cheers Jim, I have an ODB adapter already and Torque Pro on my phone, just didn't know it would work on the E55, as it never worked on my M5.
I'll get it connected to check. I guess I will not be able to have it connect to my phone at the same time as my phone kit?
I'll get it connected to check. I guess I will not be able to have it connect to my phone at the same time as my phone kit?
Don't take it the wrong way buddy but you really should do some reading.
There's lots of tech available out there but as Jimi rightly says, without knowing where your IATs are at, we can only guess what's right for your setup.
You can add all the cooling in the world and still heat soak like crazy after 15 mins. Do some research, track your car, data log, add a mod, repeat.
I wish I had time to read lol. Heat soak shouldn't be an issue when moving as much as it will be when stationary.
I wont be tracking the car, its like a boat, I'd expect it to fall over at the first corner LOL
PobodY
MB Enthusiast
Where is the intercooler? Could you just fit a fogger kit and spray CO2 on it, or do as you see the drag cars; put ice in the water tank for the air/water intercooler?
I've got a kit for the GTiR to spray the intercooler with water; it's just activated by a solenoid at full boost. I haven't tried it out yet.
I've got a kit for the GTiR to spray the intercooler with water; it's just activated by a solenoid at full boost. I haven't tried it out yet.
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Heat soak starts when you put your foot down repeatedly and the car cannot recover fast enough. When stationary, the supercharger is disengaged so you will not actually have any heat soak at all.
Re tracking. I wasn't refererring to circuit racing but some real world testing to see the effect of the mods you are doing. Be it quarter or just straight road.
55AMGsuperchare
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I use to make this kit when I was racing with my Rx7 completely mechanical no pump. It would rely on the turbo to pressurise a tank of water and meth mix.
this kit would do everything that normal water injection would do the only difference was that it was a pre turbo kit so the nozzle would go before the turbo, on the filter which had the effect of extending the compressor map which meant you could run a small turbo that would make a little more power. Now that I have cls 55, I'm playing with the idea of building one to go pre supercharger as it could help cool the charge cooler which will heat soak normally from the engine. I'm planning on modifying my car to 550-600 so just doing the research now but I'm sure my kit can be used on these cars too. Will do some testing on mine and see how it goes.
this kit would do everything that normal water injection would do the only difference was that it was a pre turbo kit so the nozzle would go before the turbo, on the filter which had the effect of extending the compressor map which meant you could run a small turbo that would make a little more power. Now that I have cls 55, I'm playing with the idea of building one to go pre supercharger as it could help cool the charge cooler which will heat soak normally from the engine. I'm planning on modifying my car to 550-600 so just doing the research now but I'm sure my kit can be used on these cars too. Will do some testing on mine and see how it goes.
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That's an interesting idea. Was the pressure controlled by a regulator?
Ah ok, I do plan on going down the strip at some point. I want to be in the 12's.
WRT meth, if you're not relying on it for a fuel then you shouldn't need to map for it. The cooling properties should already be realised.
I'm going to hook up my dongle and take the car for a blast at some point. I want to keep the temps below the point at the timing gets pulled back.
"Meth for Cooking" - Must get my eyes checked
