ML 270 Cdi Black Death of Injectors

[spraydizzy]

Hi Guy’s

This is one for the experts! or maybe not ?

I have a ML 270 Cdi 2002 W163
When in icy weather I noticed it tacking a long tome to start up, sometimes as long as ten turns of the key.
Once started it won't give this problem and will start on the button and tick over fine.
I have of recent noticed that the "kick down" will not "kick in" however the vehicle will change up and down as normal.
I had the car looked at by a main agent dealer and they told me it needed two injectors and quoted me £1700.00 yes I know had to laugh !!!
On inspection the two injectors nearest to the V-belt were covered in a black volcanic like resin
My friend “A Sprinter Mechanic” advised me that one if not both injectors have failed and I should take extreme care when removing the black resin built up over the injectors and the terminals.
He also advised me to change the valve seals on the injector rail.
I ordered two used injectors with the correct part numbers from eBay
Before fitting these injectors I had them tested by a reputable injector recon centre who gave them a clean & reset and said they were good.
They also supplied new copper washers and bolts for the clamps.
With this all said and done the parts were fitted but the vehicle won’t start up. (might cough over with easy start)
Are any other factors known on this model to give a not starting problem?
Im sure the fix is easy I don’t want to waste time and money looking for the fix

What do you suggest I have checked next? And yes my mechanic dose own a Star Tool.

Please help before my wife beats me over the head

Many thanks

 

[jay1983]

Mine had a starting problem similar to yours. A common problem on these models is the O-rings on the fuel lines perish. Reading the symptoms your displaying that would be the 1st thing I would check.
After replacing mine I have not had a single starting problem. A few others that the mrs hates hearing me mention lol.

 

[panason1c]

Hi Guy’s

This is one for the experts! or maybe not ?

I have a ML 270 Cdi 2002 W163
When in icy weather I noticed it tacking a long tome to start up, sometimes as long as ten turns of the key.
Once started it won't give this problem and will start on the button and tick over fine.
I have of recent noticed that the "kick down" will not "kick in" however the vehicle will change up and down as normal.
I had the car looked at by a main agent dealer and they told me it needed two injectors and quoted me £1700.00 yes I know had to laugh !!!
On inspection the two injectors nearest to the V-belt were covered in a black volcanic like resin
My friend “A Sprinter Mechanic” advised me that one if not both injectors have failed and I should take extreme care when removing the black resin built up over the injectors and the terminals.
He also advised me to change the valve seals on the injector rail.
I ordered two used injectors with the correct part numbers from eBay
Before fitting these injectors I had them tested by a reputable injector recon centre who gave them a clean & reset and said they were good.
They also supplied new copper washers and bolts for the clamps.
With this all said and done the parts were fitted but the vehicle won’t start up. (might cough over with easy start)
Are any other factors known on this model to give a not starting problem?
Im sure the fix is easy I don’t want to waste time and money looking for the fix

What do you suggest I have checked next? And yes my mechanic dose own a Star Tool.

Please help before my wife beats me over the head

Many thanks

Hi, The bad starting is usually caused by hardend 0 rings fitted on the end of the fuel pipes which then allow air to ingress the system, especially on colder days when the 0 rings shrink back, the fuel pipes themselves become brittle over time and easily break if disturbed so its best to renew the pipes which come with new 0 rings, costs about £70 for all the pipes.

The kickdown problem is usually caused by a bad 'maf', a new one costs about £80 and is easily fitted in minutes.

Regarding the non-starting.....are the electric plugs to the injectors fitted securely?, if just one is not making a good contact the engine will not start.

The black resin you mention is caused when the copper seal at the bottom of the injector fails, normally, just replacing the seal is all thats needed and not a new injector. (seal failure is very common on these engines.

Where are you located?

 

[tony jr]

Hi, The bad starting is usually caused by hardend 0 rings fitted on the end of the fuel pipes which then allow air to ingress the system, especially on colder days when the 0 rings shrink back, the fuel pipes themselves become brittle over time and easily break if disturbed so its best to renew the pipes which come with new 0 rings, costs about £70 for all the pipes.

The kickdown problem is usually caused by a bad 'maf', a new one costs about £80 and is easily fitted in minutes.

Regarding the non-starting.....are the electric plugs to the injectors fitted securely?, if just one is not making a good contact the engine will not start.

The black resin you mention is caused when the copper seal at the bottom of the injector fails, normally, just replacing the seal is all thats needed and not a new injector. (seal failure is very common on these engines.

Where are you located?

Poor starting could be a result of the injectors be usually as a result of leaking o ring seals allowing air to be sucked in (you can see air bubbles in the clear pipe on the high pressure pump - as above best to replace all three pipes) or could be a faulty seal on the high pressure pump. If the pump does not achieve a preset pressure in the rail then the engine will not fire! It's also with checking for cracks in the rubber connectors in the vacuum lines.

You do not always need to change the injectors as aresult of black death. Usually they can be cleaned up fine and work as normal. The most important thing is to get the injector seats re-cut so that they seal correctly and to make sure that the treads of the holes that the bolts screw into are fully cleaned out. Otherwise dirt in the holes will be compressed and it has been known for the rocker cover to be broken and go into the water jacket causing major problems.

The loss of kickdown could also be a result of a worn pivet pin on the accelerator pedal allowing too much lateral movement resulting in the pedle failing to engage the kickdown switch.

 

[tony jr]

I have also seen badly blocked fuel filters causing problems with starting.

 

[Danny DeVito]

Any dash warning lights ?

 

[spraydizzy]

HI Thanks

Can you point me in the right direction where to find these pipes or what they look like
better yet part numbers

 

[spraydizzy]

HI No lights on dash

 

[spraydizzy]

where are these filters located ?

 

[spraydizzy]

Ok I removed all injectors and had them checked and one of them had a fault so it worked out three injectors were down
I'v put the refurbed ones in with "new copper washers" and all new clamp bolts I even managed to buy a Tap to clean out the bolt holes which made life really easy.
Problem i have now is it starts up as normal but i can see coolant around three of the five injectors ? the clamp bolts are as tight as they can be
I didn't use any grease when i put the injectors in
All clamp bolts are tight !
Do I need to use more copper washers on each injector ?

 

[carat 3.6]

Are you sure that it is coolant around the injectors, and not diesel?

 

[panason1c]

Sounds to me that the clamp bolts have pierced through the head and into the water jacket, probably caused by debris or water/oil left behind in the bolt holes.

 

[walsi]

Sounds to me that the clamp bolts have pierced through the head and into the water jacket, probably caused by debris or water/oil left behind in the bolt holes.

I have been talking to someone else tonight who has just removed an injector bolt and there is water pouring out, it must be through into the water jacket below, i can't think of another explanation

 

[panason1c]

clamp bolts are as tight as they can be

If the you just fully tightened the 'stretch' clamp bolts without following the correct tightening procedure (an initial torque of 7nm and then 2x90 degree turns) then you have probably screwed them down too far and caused them to overstretch and burst through the water jacket below, either that, or, as my previous post....... debris in the holes, etc.

 

[carat 3.6]

If the you just fully tightened the 'stretch' clamp bolts without following the correct tightening procedure (an initial torque of 7nm and then 2x90 degree turns) then you have probably screwed them down too far and caused them to overstretch and burst through the water jacket below, either that, or, as my previous post....... debris in the holes, etc.

+1.

Time to pressure test the cooling system.

 

[spraydizzy]

Oh dear! what's the problem if this is the case ?
what tell tail sings should I look for cos its all back together and starting up as it should be
I'm waiting for a MAF Mass air flow sensor because there is no excelleration or kick-down and it seems a tad smokey! is this all air flow related issue now ?

 

[spraydizzy]

Hi

every things back together all torqued up as suggested however, the injectors all have two copper washers on them. i used the special injector cutting seat tool with new stretch bolts and with one copper washer the injectors leaked coolant, with two washers it stopped leaking.
I fitted a new Air Mass Flow sensor which seems to have cured the kick down but the engine is running smoky and with a lac of power and the gearbox is holding onto gears now, it wasn't doing this before.

 

[proser]

You deffo do not need to use 2 washers per injector, as then the injector tip is not in the correct position in the cylinder.
Are you 100% certain that it's coolant and not diesel ? As a leaking washer will let diesel past.

For the other problem then I would get it on diagnostics to get it checked over for any errors

 

[panason1c]

The excess smoke/poor running is due to the injectors not in the correct position due to using 2 washers.

Hope the new maf was a genuine item and not from ebay, ebay mafs are reported to be a bit dodgy as some of them are Chinese copies and dont always work as they should.

 

[walsi]

Hi

every things back together all torqued up as suggested however, the injectors all have two copper washers on them. i used the special injector cutting seat tool with new stretch bolts and with one copper washer the injectors leaked coolant, with two washers it stopped leaking.
I fitted a new Air Mass Flow sensor which seems to have cured the kick down but the engine is running smoky and with a lac of power and the gearbox is holding onto gears now, it wasn't doing this before.

How much metal did you remove when you recut the seats, you are only meant to clean the carbon off and and stop as soon as you see the first signs of alloy. If you have removed too much you will probably find that you would need 2 to washers as the clamp would not be able to pull the injector down tight enough to stop it leaking.
If there are signs of coolant then you might have pierced the water way under the bolts. Fitting 2 washers will not cause it to smoke, i have had to do that before as a stop gap while waiting for a new head and it didn't cause any smoking or make any difference to how the engine ran, you are only talking of raising the injector by a few thou. I would tend more towards it been some crap stuck in one of the injectors from when you removed them.

Martin