Mods and insurance

[BTB 500]

Shopping around for insurance quotes for Mrs BTB's Audi today, and this was a typical declaration (Direct Line)

The car is owned and registered by you, your spouse, partner or civil partner (not business partner) at your address and has not been modified or altered in any way (including wheels, suspension, bodywork and engine)

So if the wheels have been changed you can't take out a policy (online, anyway) ...

 

[crockers]

True. The principle if insurance is you pay a premium commensurate to the the risk you bring to a common pool of risk.
By changing the wheels the car may be less roadworthy or the value greatly increased. So therefore a call is needed.

Sounds mad and I know people will say what if you spec extra special wheels on order. Here again all factory fitted extras should be declared. Just to be on safe side in the event of a claim. Most insurers dont or well didn't load the premium. But now they are desperate to raise revenues so any excuse add £50.

 

[A210AMG]

I fitted different alloys to my s211 although they were a factory option, I've also had the Brabus d6 box fitted and declaring these mods my normal insurance either didn't want to know or charged a silly figure.

Ringing round I found a specialist I used years ago... Adrian flux and now pay less for the car with mods than I was with e sure without them

 

[gmk666]

I'm with Direct Line, and rang to enquire what difference the planned D6 upgrade would make to my premium. £150, and that's just for the remaining 4 months of this year's cover. Bloody rip-off when you consider that'll make my sensible diesel the same to insure as the lunatic (and nearly double the price brand new) Audi RS 6 it's replaced.










(Still going to get the D6 though. And then move insurance companies...)

 

[x332race]

I'm with Direct Line, and rang to enquire what difference the planned D6 upgrade would make to my premium. £150, and that's just for the remaining 4 months of this year's cover. Bloody rip-off when you consider that'll make my sensible diesel the same to insure as the lunatic (and nearly double the price brand new) Audi RS 6 it's replaced.





(Still going to get the D6 though. And then move insurance companies...)

Do a search with Confused.com....they let you add mods and search for best price....I have a brabus box and pay about £20-30 more pa with admiral

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Isn't this all a bit of a fallacy?
What if you bought a used car that had bigger wheels on or it had a power upgrade that you didn't know about?

 

[finisterre]

If you bought a car already modified you wouldn't be the sort of person that modifies their car.

I will throw this in, it isn't a belief, just a suspicion.

The people that fit bigger wheels, nippier engines, spoilers, whatever, are they naturally a little dissatisfied? Are they tempted by the tricky overtake? Do they feel that their car is special? Do rules apply to them in quite the same way? Is it possible they like to be different, quicker, flasher, to stand out from the crowd.

Wouldn't you think they are an increased risk?

 

[camerafodder]

If you bought a car already modified you wouldn't be the sort of person that modifies their car.

I will throw this in, it isn't a belief, just a suspicion.

The people that fit bigger wheels, nippier engines, spoilers, whatever, are they naturally a little dissatisfied? Are they tempted by the tricky overtake? Do they feel that their car is special? Do rules apply to them in quite the same way? Is it possible they like to be different, quicker, flasher, to stand out from the crowd.

Wouldn't you think they are an increased risk?

Says the man who drives a Z4

I think what sweetpea means is that you could buy a second hand car that had different wheels or a chip/remap but unless the seller tells you or unless you're an absolute anorak for that model of car how would you know that it had been 'modified'?

 

[BTB 500]

What if you bought a used car that had bigger wheels on or it had a power upgrade that you didn't know about?

I guess it depends on the degree of the mods. I mean, I have no idea whether our Audi TDi is remapped or not, and it wouldn't be reasonable to expect a lay person to be able to tell. But lowered suspension, blacked out windows, 19" wheels, etc. are all pretty obvious and I doubt you'd get away with claiming you thought they were standard ... particularly if you're talking about a model of car that's a common sight on the roads.

And of course it's definitely not going to work if you've had the vehicle from new

 

[BTB 500]

I will throw this in, it isn't a belief, just a suspicion.

The people that fit bigger wheels, nippier engines, spoilers, whatever, are they naturally a little dissatisfied? Are they tempted by the tricky overtake? Do they feel that their car is special? Do rules apply to them in quite the same way? Is it possible they like to be different, quicker, flasher, to stand out from the crowd.

Wouldn't you think they are an increased risk?

Yes, for sure. And you can add in increased costs to repair (an AMG front bumper vs a standard one etc.), and possibly a higher risk of theft (by making a car look more 'desirable').

 

[verytalldave]

Says the man who drives a Z4

I think what sweetpea means is that you could buy a second hand car that had different wheels or a chip/remap but unless the seller tells you or unless you're an absolute anorak for that model of car how would you know that it had been 'modified'?

This has been discussed before.
Ignorance in any form is not an excuse.
If your car is not as originally supplied when new and has been chipped, tweaked, modified in ANY way by either you or a previous owner and you dont declare it to your insurer then they are not liable to pay out on a claim. Its all stated in their policy documents.
Its down to you as the owner to ensure that your car is specified correctly when insuring.
In fact, if you do have an accident where you have been apportioned the blame, and it is for a considerable sum of money - for example - if a third party has been injured - then your insurer will examine your car with a fine tooth comb to see if there is any way they can get out of paying - and leave you with a potentially HUGE bill. Apparently, one of the first things they look for is a change of chip.
Even just changing your car radio and not telling your insurers can invalidate your policy.
To be sure, tell them everything non-standard.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

This has been discussed before.
Ignorance in any form is not an excuse.
If your car is not as originally supplied when new and has been chipped, tweaked, modified in ANY way by either you or a previous owner and you dont declare it to your insurer then they are not liable to pay out on a claim. Its all stated in their policy documents.
Its down to you as the owner to ensure that your car is specified correctly when insuring.
In fact, if you do have an accident where you have been apportioned the blame, and it is for a considerable sum of money - for example - if a third party has been injured - then your insurer will examine your car with a fine tooth comb to see if there is any way they can get out of paying - and leave you with a potentially HUGE bill. Apparently, one of the first things they look for is a change of chip.
Even just changing your car radio and not telling your insurers can invalidate your policy.
To be sure, tell them everything non-standard.

Thay are all fair comments but my point is- how far do you go?
I mean I've had 3 Mercedes with the 3222cc CDi engine and they all have felt different in their speed/power.
So by your logic I should have every single car that I buy checked for a remap?

 

[timskemp]

It's ultimately going to be a matter for interpretation, both on the behalf of the insurer or the insured, but in general most insurers will refuse to pay more than the price for a standard part (not normally a big deal) if a modified part is fitted and not declared (such as an alloy wheel). If a performance upgrade is fitted and contributes materially to a claim then I would expect some aggravation from the insurer, but it would be for the insurer to prove that (a) you knew it was fitted and (b) it was material to the policy (they would not have insured you if it were declared) or to the claim (you'd not have claimed had it not been fitted).

Only a court could really decide, but as Dave says above - if you know about it declare it and you'll minimise the issues if they arise.

Insurers when quoting should ask "to the best of your knowledge" about any mods, and if they don't you should reply with "as far as I know", then when the tapes are played in court....

 

[recardo]

as per sweatpeas point, how would the average motorist know if a car has been remapped or not? Its a very grey area......

 

[Dieselman]

I think what sweetpea means is that you could buy a second hand car that had different wheels or a chip/remap but unless the seller tells you or unless you're an absolute anorak for that model of car how would you know that it had been 'modified'?

If you are looking for a particular model of car, you usually know what it looks like and what wheels it came with as standard.

 

[artyman]

I very much doubt insurance companies expect the list of options to be quoted when insuring your car, ...erm I have velour mats, smokers pack, cupholders etc etc

 

[219]

This has been discussed before.
Ignorance in any form is not an excuse.
If your car is not as originally supplied when new and has been chipped, tweaked, modified in ANY way by either you or a previous owner and you dont declare it to your insurer then they are not liable to pay out on a claim. Its all stated in their policy documents.
Its down to you as the owner to ensure that your car is specified correctly when insuring.
In fact, if you do have an accident where you have been apportioned the blame, and it is for a considerable sum of money - for example - if a third party has been injured - then your insurer will examine your car with a fine tooth comb to see if there is any way they can get out of paying - and leave you with a potentially HUGE bill. Apparently, one of the first things they look for is a change of chip.
Even just changing your car radio and not telling your insurers can invalidate your policy.
To be sure, tell them everything non-standard.

The insurers might try that on , and often have .

However , there has been legal precedent where a claim was rejected on the basis of the car having non-standard wheels . The car was bought used and the wheels , although being authentic wheels for the make of car , were not standard on that model .

The owner took the insurance company to court where the judge ruled that an ordinary owner could hardly be expected to know that the wheels were 'special' and therefore ordered the insurer to pay out .

It was held that , unless you were a trader or a motor engineer , you would not be held to be an 'expert' in this field and therefore an 'ordinary' person could not be expected to know every detail of the specification of every car .

 

[219]

Even just changing your car radio and not telling your insurers can invalidate your policy.

Since Mercedes have for years supplied vehicles without radio ( because owners prefer to specify their own ) unless it is ordered as a factory option , it is entirely up to the owner what they fit into the space in the dash , and it is expected that an owner will fit a radio of their own choice once they take delivery - hardly a 'modification' . A 'modification' would involve removal or alteration of some standard part and replacement with another part rather than fitment of an accessory for which the facility was already provided at the factory .

I know that most insurance policies I have had normally just put a maximum value on the amount that can be claimed for car audio ( which has never covered even the head units I have in my cars , never mind the rest of the systems ) it makes little difference whether I swap one component for another .

 

[NewMB]

I very much doubt insurance companies expect the list of options to be quoted when insuring your car, ...erm I have velour mats, smokers pack, cupholders etc etc

They DO expect it.....

When asked about options, I had to state every single one of them, even no cost options!

They did try to charge an additional £80 for rear factory tinted windows. A complaint letter later and I was refunded. The following year, no charge for factory tinted windows (was told that "the underwriters have changed this").

Either way, all insurance companies will do anything they can to refuse a payout. Anything!

 

[219]

As a customer , I refuse to give business to companies who show that sort of attitude to me , and I tell them why I am taking my business elsewhere .