Money Claim Online?

Discussion in 'OT (OFF Topic) Forums' started by E55BOF, Oct 31, 2016.

  1. E55BOF

    E55BOF Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I would welcome a little advice on this. I recently bought a Japanese motorcycle, advertised as a 2013 model, from a trader. The same trader had two virtually identical 2010 motorcyles for sale at substantially lower prices. Note, please, that I would not have paid the price I did if I had known it was not a 2013 model.

    Mine bears, perfectly legally, a 13 plate; it was not actually imported until 2012. The plot thickens a little here, because the DVLA record shows the year of manufacture as 2013 as well. However, enquiry with the manufacturer has revealed that mine is a 2010 model, actually manufactured at the end of 2009. The bike was not as described in the ad.

    I'm quite content to keep the bike, but not priced as a 2013 model. The 2013 model has a significantly higher specification than the 2010.

    The trader, initially sympathetic and promising to sort it out, has now stopped communicating with me. It is too late to reject the bike, which I have had for two months, and anyway, I want to keep it; there's nothing wrong with it except the price.

    I was induced to buy it by the misdescription; I paid the going rate for a three-year-old bike, and got a six-year-old bike. It seems to me that I have a sound case to seek a refund of the difference between the going rate for a 2010, as evidenced by the trader's other bikes, and what I paid, and that Money Claim Online is the best route to take.

    Ladies and Gentlemen, the floor is yours; any and all advice, tips and opinions will be gratefully received.
     
  2. moonloops

    moonloops Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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  3. whitenemesis

    whitenemesis MB Club Veteran

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    Could it be the dealer also thought it was a 2013 model and presumably paid the 'going rate' for that age, hence his reluctance to refund the difference?

    I think unless you can prove he deliberately falsely advertised the bike...
     
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  4. DrFeelgood

    DrFeelgood MB Club Veteran

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    Letter before action might be enough to open dialogue with them again.

    If proceeding then follow advice from the court's website as much of the advice on forums will be a little aggressive and, potentially, incorrect.
     
  5. brucemillar

    brucemillar MB Club Veteran

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    "not as described" in selling law, is indeed "not as described" this is binary and requires no interpretation.

    It is illegal, with the onus being on the seller to remedy the situation. You have offered him a remedy.

    To avoid court action (if you go that way) he needs to settle or negotiate on your offer of settlement/solution. He could, if he chose, offer a full and complete refund, including any costs that you have incurred as a result of his miss-selling and you could decide to accept this.

    If he opted to simply ignore you then you have little choice but to start formal legal proceedings, if you are that way inclined. You are perfectly entitled to do so.

    Beware: The issue of valuation can be very fragile. He may claim that your valuation is off the mark? Have you any "real life" documentation to back your valuation?
     
  6. DrFeelgood

    DrFeelgood MB Club Veteran

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    Where was the bike from 2009 to 2013?
     
  7. OP
    OP
    E55BOF

    E55BOF Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Thank you Bruce. I rather thought that was the case legally.

    Valuation is complicated by the fact that all three bikes' first and only previous user was British Transport Police, and police bikes fetch less than privately-owned ones. All three were for sale for substantially less than equivalent privately-owned bikes.

    I plan to use the trader's own asking prices for the other two 2010 models (one with 30K miles, the other with 50K) as benchmarks for a fair price. The other two have not, in fact, sold, so I could theoretically argue that they are priced too high, but I won't; I'm not looking to screw the maximum out of the trader, just to reach a fair settlement, with its calculation extrapolated from the prices of the other two.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    E55BOF

    E55BOF Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    It will have been in a crate, unsold, in a Yamaha or Yamaha dealer's warehouse; it was imported into the UK in July 2012.

    That is not relevant to the case, though. I bought what was advertised as a 2013 model, and Yamaha have confirmed it is a 2010 model, and actually manufactured in late 2009. The issue is what year model the bike is, not when it was made. If it had simply been advertised as 2013-registered, I wouldn't have a leg to stand on; but it wasn't, so I have.

    There was a minor revamp to the FJR1300 for the 2011 model year, and a major facelift for the 2013. The situation came to light when I found that the appropriate online owner's manual was for a 2010 bike, wondered why, and did some digging. You may feel, and I could not disagree, that the seller was unlucky in selling it to an awkward old git with a nasty suspicious mind...
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
  9. moonloops

    moonloops Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Probably in Japan. I made a fortune importing LHD bikes and selling them as RHD back in the day :D
     
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  10. KennyN

    KennyN Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    If the DVLA and V5 shows it was manufactured in 2013 then why would the dealer not advertise it as a 2013 machine and price it accordingly , i very much doubt the seller would enquire with the manufacturer in Japan to verify this unless there was some sort of issue and even if there was then they still sold it as a 2013 machine , which it technically was.

    There are loads of bikes that have sat around unregistered for a few years and once imported / registered wear a newer plate but with an older spec. / colour scheme.

    Kenny
     
  11. OP
    OP
    E55BOF

    E55BOF Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Oh, that was you, was it? Crafty blighter...
     
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  12. DrFeelgood

    DrFeelgood MB Club Veteran

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    They drive on the same side as us. :D
     
  13. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    You have entered the thorny and oft disputed territory of date of registration V date of manufacture as the "age" of a product. Its pretty much a motor trade norm to describe a vehicle by the year of its registration rather than the date of its manufacture otherwise there would a very large no of hacked off owners going about. New cars and bikes do often sit around for a time somewhere in the supply chain before they are actually sold and first registered. 3 years does seem a particularly long time for the bike to sit around but if comparing it to the two 2010 model prices remember its had 3 years less use than them even if it has the same spec [ 2010 rather than 2013] While you could argue it doesn't have the same specification as a 2013 model it is 3 years of running younger than the 2010 bikes. This might make it difficult to prove loss of value especially when you come to sell it as it can legitimately be sold as a 2013 bike by accepted industry practice? I am sympathetic to your dilema just not sure just how much of a case you have particularly with a second hand bike which you presumably inspected /rode before buying.:dk:
     
  14. DrFeelgood

    DrFeelgood MB Club Veteran

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    I'd speak to a solicitor.

    You need some advice from a professional who has knowledge of claimants who have suffered the same perceived loss as yourself.

    It will be very difficult for you to pull together convincing documentary evidence that you have suffered a loss.

    Should you attempt this alone and the other party turn up with a smart solicitor you could see judgement go against you or be adjourned several times until you give up/have a mental breakdown/lose your home and family/other dark options exist.

    Edited to add short version :

    Where's your evidence?
     
  15. KennyN

    KennyN Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Nice machines the FJR1300`s a mate of mine has had a few of them over the years.

    Just one thing though , if the 2013 model had "significant changes" from the 2010 model then didn`t the alarm bells start ringing with you when you looked at the machine with the older bodywork etc. that wore a 13 plate ??

    Kenny
     
  16. brucemillar

    brucemillar MB Club Veteran

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    I may be missing something in all the replies here? Here is the salient and only point in trading law..

    "advertised as a 2013 model"

    Was it a 2013 model?

    If not? There is your answer and that is your case. It is not as described.

    As a buyer you are considered a layman. You cannot reasonably be expected to carry all the knowledge of hindsight, that after the fact investigation, may throw up.

    It is very clear. Goods sold must be as described. Not nearly as described or almost as described ;ˆ) Think about it. "Genuine 1.000 miles" well I meant 10.000 genuine miles so it was "nearly as described" just one zero missed off.
    Your use of his current pricing policy would seem to me to be fair and reasonable.

    The difference in price between the two bikes at his rates would demonstrate your loss.

    A quick word with Trading Standards should confirm and may even help.
     
  17. DrFeelgood

    DrFeelgood MB Club Veteran

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    There We Are Then
     
  18. OP
    OP
    E55BOF

    E55BOF Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Not at first; I assumed that it had been a late 2012, registered in 2013. It was the handbook that really set me wondering.
     
  19. DrFeelgood

    DrFeelgood MB Club Veteran

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    So then, what will you be doing?
     
  20. Steve320

    Steve320 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    '''Tis Only Sorry Sellers Ever Repent.
     

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