More brake failure... urgent advice needed!

[Spinal]

First and foremost, this is totally unrelated to my other brake failure thread...

So last week my bike went for it's service... and today I took it for a ride to get some lunch.... my first real ride after the service....

Halfway on my way back (about a 1 mile ride) I felt a judder... 200 yards down the road, I notice that my rear caliper unit had fallen off the mounting and was bouncing on the road attached by the brake line...

The bolts that are meant to hold it are nowehere to be found...

Now, my belief is that hte garage may have forgotten to refit those bolts... but before I call them, any ideas where I stand from a legal standpoint?

Personally, I would like them to replace the bolts but aso replace the caliper as it's badly scratched from bouncing down the road... and check the bike to make sure that nothing else has been forgotten... Is this unreasonable?

M.

 

[Spinal]

Update: Just called the dealership... while very polite and courteous, they didn't admit to anything (which is understandable). I did get asked "with repect, has the bike been parked anywhere public where people could have had access to it?" (which it hasn't it's been in my garage since).

I got asked if I wanted them to fit the bolts, which to which I said "yes please" and they're collecting it tomorrow...

If they replace the bolts and check the bike/brake system is actually ok (I noticed the brake fluid is dripping from the overflow) then I guess I can live with a scratched caliper... though I'm not really pleased....

M.

 

[wemorgan]

I'd ask for additional services in kind as compensation. Clearly the workmanship was poor and the consequences could have been serious. . Ask for your next service to be FOC.

My father had something similar happen to him in his W203. The main dealer offered to replace the discs and pads FOC at the next service.

 

[Doodle]

To be honest, the "has it been parked anywhere where someone might have had access" excuse is a load of tosh - instantly looking to deflect the blame. Caliper bolts don't come undone easily, and I find it hard to believe that there are gangs of hooded youths wandering the streets with sockets and spanners randomly loosening bike parts (and then not stealing them).

I would imagine part of the service (not knowing what you had done) has involved removing the brake caliper - and they've obviously not tightened it up. Thank god it wasn't a front caliper (I made that mistake with my own brakes, once and only once)

Polite and courteous perhaps, but I find it hard to believe it is realistically anyone else's fault. I'd be looking for a new garage...

 

[Sp!ke]

Firstly, did the shop list work that would have involved undoing the caliper? Did they remove the rear wheel or change the pads or something?

If so then this falls very firmly in their court and I would also suggest that the caliper is replaced as well as the hoses. The hoses would llikely have been stretched and be potentially hiding damage. Equally, calipers could be damaged other than cosmetically and frankly if they are damaged cosmetically then the shop should rectify this. I would also be inspecting the disk for damage.

If the workshop even starts to quibble, I would remind them what the potential consequences could have been and ask him if he would really like you to escalate things. If he continues to be reluctant then just ask for his insurance details and make a claim.

In future, if I were you I'd service your bike yourself as you simply cannot trust bike shops to do the job correctly in my experience. Any workshop that is capable of making such a serious mistake needs to look at their processes. People make mistakes, thats why all work needs to be checked before the vehicle is returned to the customer.

 

[Doodle]

A valid point, Spike.

Both the Triumph dealer I use now and the previous BMW dealer take the bike for a short test run after any safety-critical work (brakes, suspension, drivetrain etc etc) is complete, to make sure it's all ok.

 

[corned]

I would echo Spike's words regarding the brake hose(s) at the rear. If the calliper has been bouncing around on the end of a hose, then you have to consider the hose now to be scrap. It has been subject to stresses far beyond reasonable expectations.

How long has elapsed since the bike was returned to you?

What type are the fixing bolts? If they are Allen or Torx bolts or some other more specialised fixing - rather than 'normal' hex-head ones - then IMHO it is beyond unlikely that someone has had tried to have them away by chance on passing by. Not that this was very likely even if it had been parked in public ever since its return to you.

Again it is only my opinion, but I think you should take this up a lot more firmly with the garage. Good luck.

 

[Sp!ke]

Also, I should mention that the caliper bolts should be replaced with genuine items and not any old bolt off the shelf that fits.

 

[davidjpowell]

You haven't upset anyonre recently by any chance???

 

[corned]

This is a tough brake for you... (Get that one in before someone else does)

I have re-read your original posts, and I (as well as others I think!) missed a potentially key bit which seems to me to be significant:

"with respect, has the bike been parked anywhere public where people could have had access to it?" (which it hasn't it's been in my garage since).

What did they say in response to that?

Obviously it doesn't matter how many members of the public have spanners out at the ready, if your bike hasn't been out in public since return from the garage!

I think you should expect them to rectify the whole situation - no doubt about it.

 

[Spinal]

I've had the bike just over a week since they returned it. They returned it around lunchtime, it was parked for 4 hours in a private (covered by security) parking lot in a school (where I work). From there I rode home (about 30 seconds) and put it in the garage, and haven't used it since... I'll drive back today over the route I took and look for any bolts...

In response to my saying it was in the garage the man stuttered and "uhmm'ed" a bit... eventually saying they would pick it up.

I guess I'll have a chat with them tomorrow when they collect it, asking for the brake line & caliper to be inspected as a minimum. Ideally I would like it replaced; but I'm not totally sure how to word it without sounding like I'm "trying it on"...

Oh - and I'm fairly sure they will use OEM bolts - it's a ducati dealership (£670 for the service and mot... then people complain MB services are expensive )

As for servicing it myself, I get the bikes serviced "professionally" for that very reason, I don't trust myself to do it well! Also, I would have absolutely no clue how to change the belts on a V2 desmodromic engine... the name alone is more complex than any engines I;ve taken apart!

M.

 

[corned]

Pah - desmos are so 1920's/1930's!!

Given that his defence didn't include the words "but we didn't touch your back brakes/wheel", then I think you can safely assume that this was indeed part of the work done, otherwise that would have been their no1 wriggle-out clause. The finger is pointing steadily in their direction.

 

[Doodle]

As a main dealer, they should know better. You're not trying it on, you just want it put right, especially given the amount of wedge you've just spent - I knew Duke's weren't cheap to run, but I'd forgotten just how painful their servicing can be.

The belts on the desmo twins are a right 'mare - up there with doing the shims on my friend's ZX7R. Don't blame you for not wanting to do them.

To be fair it's not even that expensive...depending on which model a Brembo Goldline caliper is £40-60, and a braided hose £15-20 at most - retail prices!

 

[Sp!ke]

If the bike shop are unable to ensure caliper bolts were tightened, are you really sure you want them meddling with your cam belts?

Out of interest, what did your £670 service include? (I suspect it didnt include the cambelt)

The brake hoses should most definately be changed as they can be damaged by just hanging on their own weight. The bike shop should know this and if they dont immediately agree then at the very least they should be reported to Ducati if they are main agents.

 

[rf065]

I guess I'll have a chat with them tomorrow when they collect it, asking for the brake line & caliper to be inspected as a minimum. Ideally I would like it replaced; but I'm not totally sure how to word it without sounding like I'm "trying it on"...
M.

Trying it on??? They could just have had a million pound law suit on their hands due entirely to their negligence!

A new caliper & brake hose should be the least of their problems! They should consider that they are getting off lightly.

Russ

 

[Spinal]

To be totally frank - I'm not sure what the service included! They (the dealer/mechs) got recomended a few years ago on another forum I was a member of (the Ducati Sporting club) and almost everyone spoke very highly of them. As such, I trust(ed?) them pretty blindly. To the point that I didn't use the dealer that's 6 miles from my house and instead get these guys to pick up the bike from 40 miles away!

The breakdown of the service is:
Collection from residence: £50
Delivery to residence (actually my workplace): £50
Annual service inc. belts and MOT
- Labour £337.20
- MOTK Chalk £29.20
- DR Belt (2) £28.61
- Oil filter
- DPS
DPS
Fuel Filter
Fuel Clip (2)
O Ring
Spark plug (2)
Gasket (4)
Shell Advance Ultra 10/40 (3.5l)
Environment fee
Air filter
Opening shim

Comments:
Found air filter box contaminated by mouse, etc
Check shims, found one opened too tight, reshim.
Bleed brakes

Sorry, didn't include all the detailed prices as I'm too lazy... if you really want I can scan the invoice tomorrow...

That last one "bleed brakes" might be relevant... I'll type a letter to give to the driver just in case he's not willing to listen to me asking for bits and bobs to be replaced!

M.

 

[Sp!ke]

They wouldnt need to undo the caliper bolts to bleed the brakes although if the bolts were loose prior to the service, they should have spotted this while bleeding the brakes.

While changing the drive belt however. they would have had to remove the rear wheel and undo the caliper bolts as well as the swingarm spindle.

FWIW, the mechanic working on your bike probably only earns £337 gross per week and your service items would have taken him a total of an hour an a half to complete.

 

[Doodle]

£50 each way? Owch!

The Triumph dealer who supplied my SpeedTrip collects and returns my bike some 80 miles each way, gratis. I no doubt pay some of it in the service costs, but their pricing is still relatively competitive.

 

[Spinal]

It's not cheap... but if the job is good, I don't mind it

<name/address omitted)
1st July 2009

Dear Mr. ***,
First and foremost, I hope I’m addressing this letter to the right person; I got your name off the job-sheet that was delivered with my 750ss. If not, I would appreciate if you could forward it to the relevant person.

I am contacting you regarding my Ducati 750ss, reg. *52 *** which you recently serviced. On the 12th of June, 2009; my motorbike was collected by W.M. Snell for its annual service and M.O.T. (including belt change as advised). The bike was then delivered back to me on the 25th of June, 2009. Since then, I have been quite busy so the bike has been parked, unused, in my locked garage.

Today, the 1st of July, I decided to ride to work (a very short ride, less than a mile away from my house). Halfway there, I felt a judder and shortly after noticed my rear brakes seemed ineffective. I then noticed the rear brake calliper dangling behind the bike. I stopped immediately using the front brakes, and looped the rear calliper and brake line over the exhaust to get the bike off the road. Given than by then I was less than 200 yards from work, I decided to get the bike to work.

I then called your office on 01420 *** and reported the issue. After explaining the situation, I was asked if I wanted the situation to be rectified by W.M. Snell. Given that you have been recommended by quite a few friends on the Ducati Sporting Club, have a fantastic reputation and I’ve been very happy with the service over the last few years I agreed to this.

Given that the bike hasn’t been used since the service; no bolts were found on the short stretch of road I rode on; the bike has been in locked storage since the service; and that to remove the rear wheel, I do believe you need to undo the calliper bolts and rear swing-arm spindle - I have reason to believe that the calliper bolts were not refitted during the service.

Aside from the cosmetic damage to the calliper resulting from this oversight, I have been informed that the brake line has probably been stretched and is hiding damage. Also, I have since noticed brake fluid leaking out of the overflow of the reservoir.

As such, I feel that it would be reasonable (and safe) for not only the bolts to be refitted, but also the brake line replaced as well as the rear calliper – thus returning the bike to its condition before the incident.

I realise that mistakes happen, and am sure that we can agree that this could have been disastrous if a further incident arose from the lack or rear brake (or the dangling brake line and calliper). I appreciate your prompt attention to the matter. If you wish to contact me, my office number is 01895 *****.
Thank you in advance,
Sincerely,
Michele *****

Does that sound reasonable?

M.

 

[rf065]

Sounds good to me for your opening gambit.
Hopefully you will not need to follow up with anything stronger & they will restore your bike to the way it was before.

Russ