More Space For Cyclists And Pedestrians - Discuss

[219]

There are two further problems, one practical, the other more fundamental.

Put the number on the vest. Now try reading it as it flaps, in the breeze, gets obscured by a rucksack, etc, etc. Drape it over the rucksack? How big is this vest? Then watch it doesn't get caught in the spokes.

Nowhere do we have to wear anything that identifies us in public. Not even cars. The registration mark on a car identifies only the car - not its driver. The driver still has a legal right to deny driving it (though there is a sanction for this). You may or may not agree with the correctness of that situation but it would be fundamentally unfair to deny a cyclist the same right for doing the same thing ie, using a wheeled vehicle on a public road. To change one, so must the other be changed and I doubt there's much appetite among motorists for that - or any great need.

I did suggest changing it for motor vehicles as well ; it would be administratively simpler to identify the rider/driver than the machine ; you are assigned a number at age 11 , when going to high school , and it stays with you for life , regardless of driving tests taken or not , particularly if you were not restricted as to how many vehicles / cycles you could have as an individual driver/rider . For cars/vans etc , it is just a matter of the driver having his own plates which he/she slots into the holder before taking the wheel 9 could even be thin foldable plates which can be easily carried and slotted into a holder with perspex cover .

 

[219]

Sadly anyone carrying a smartphone is tracked and identified through the device ID which is linked to the users phone contract.

We don't HAVE to carry mobile phones ( smart or dumb ) ; I often turn mine off while driving anyway .

 

[219]

Put the number on the vest. Now try reading it as it flaps, in the breeze, gets obscured by a rucksack, etc, etc. Drape it over the rucksack? How big is this vest? Then watch it doesn't get caught in the spokes.

It is simple enough , legally , to place a requirement upon the cyclist that the number will be legibly displayed at all times . In the Fire Service we have all sorts of tabards which denote one's role ; the information is always on the back , which is always clearly visible .

Need a rucksack ? Fit a rack to your bike ; don;t wear it on your back .

The number wouldn't have to be worn on the back , but a vest seems the simplest solution ; equally some sort of rectangular holder attached to the bike would be fine ; but the number would identify the rider , not the machine .

 

[219]

I really don’t get peoples concerns about tracking, CCTV recording their movements blar blar blar.

They can track and look at me all they like, record everything we say in our house on the mics on all our devices. I couldn’t really give two hoots.

I have nothing to hide - full stop . But my home is a private place ; I don't mind being surveilled in public places , but not in my home , thanks .

 

[219]

Spontaneous pleasure for the unregulated cyclists who are then spoiling it for others.

At the moment a significant minority of cyclists misbehave with apparent impunity and no sense of responsibility.

I only think cyclists need to be regulated if riding on the public highway ; if you want to cycle off road , on cycle tracks , in the woods , mountain biking - you could still be free to do that as long as you didn't ride on the road to get there .

 

[Darrell]

No one is compelled to own or carry a smartphone. I do neither.

How do you get on the forum?

 

[Bellow]

I did suggest changing it for motor vehicles as well ; it would be administratively simpler to identify the rider/driver than the machine ; you are assigned a number at age 11 , when going to high school , and it stays with you for life , regardless of driving tests taken or not , particularly if you were not restricted as to how many vehicles / cycles you could have as an individual driver/rider . For cars/vans etc , it is just a matter of the driver having his own plates which he/she slots into the holder before taking the wheel 9 could even be thin foldable plates which can be easily carried and slotted into a holder with perspex cover .

There are so many practical reasons why that is undesirable I don't know where to start. Next time you're near an airport though, have a look for the hire car outfit's 'runners'. In and out of 100 different cars a day.

As it is though, is the registration mark not the identifier for VED and MOT? Are VINs to a format that makes implementing a system with them straightforward?

 

[Dryce]

I only think cyclists need to be regulated if riding on the public highway ; if you want to cycle off road , on cycle tracks , in the woods , mountain biking - you could still be free to do that as long as you didn't ride on the road to get there .

I don't have an issue with specific cycle tracks, woods, mountain bikes.

But paths and roads are important. And there needs to be clarification that just because something is marked as a cycle route it doesn't give cyclists precedence.

Too many (not all) cyclists ride on the pavement.​

​

Too many appear to think they are allowed to ride on footpaths with little to no consideration for pedestrians - some seem to think they have right of way over pedestrians on paved foot paths.​

​

Too many provide no warning of approach to pedestrians.​

​

Too many do not observe road markings and signage (stop, one way, give way)​

​

Too many do not observe traffic lights.​

​

Too many ride without lighting.​

It has been getting worse over the last few years. The lockdown has brought out numbers who seem to have little ieda of how they should behave - and it just takes a large enough minority who misbehave to set a precedent for those who think it's OK because others do it.

 

[Bellow]

It is simple enough , legally , to place a requirement upon the cyclist that the number will be legibly displayed at all times . In the Fire Service we have all sorts of tabards which denote one's role ; the information is always on the back , which is always clearly visible .

Need a rucksack ? Fit a rack to your bike ; don;t wear it on your back .

And on and on it goes. The prescriptive list keeps growing.
I just want the freedom to jump on a bike if the mood takes me. A bike. Little more than a toy. Not a 600kg horse or my 2500kg truck - a simple bicycle.

 

[Bellow]

How do you get on the forum?

Broadband and a lap top.

 

[219]

There are so many practical reasons why that is undesirable I don't know where to start. Next time you're near an airport though, have a look for the hire car outfit's 'runners'. In and out of 100 different cars a day.

As it is though, is the registration mark not the identifier for VED and MOT? Are VINs to a format that makes implementing a system with them straightforward?

Within the precincts of an Airport , the 'runners' will be on private ground ; anywhere else they stick their number in a holder ( they could even have magnetic ones they slap on the bootlid ) .

Yes when insurance is taken out , any drivers would give their number to the insurer who would add that to the data on the MID ; same with MOT ; it is very easy for databases to be linked , simpler than having multiple lots of VED to pay for each car when we can only drive one ( and in fact the VED would be for the DRIVER to pay , so if you have 2 , 3 , 6 or 66 cars , you only pay once - a HUGE benefit for car enthusiasts like us

We could also change the system so the DRIVER is insured , not the vehicle ; it works for motorbikes - I had a 'rider policy' with Norwich Union which allowed me to ride any bike - no reason it shouldn't work for cars - just prove the DRIVER is insured - simples !

 

[219]

And on and on it goes. The prescriptive list keeps growing.
I just want the freedom to jump on a bike if the mood takes me. A bike. Little more than a toy. Not a 600kg horse or my 2500kg truck - a simple bicycle.

I'm not suggesting that you would , but even 'a simple bicycle' can cause a fatal accident : suppose your brakes fail and you come out of a side road ( or you just run a red light ) , causing a car to swerve and mow down people on the pavement , or at a bus stop , or to crash into an oncoming vehicle , all without hitting you .... and you cycle off on your merry way , without anyone knowing who you were ?

 

[219]

There are so many practical reasons why that is undesirable I don't know where to start. Next time you're near an airport though, have a look for the hire car outfit's 'runners'. In and out of 100 different cars a day.

As it is though, is the registration mark not the identifier for VED and MOT? Are VINs to a format that makes implementing a system with them straightforward?

By your argument , no vehicles would need to have registration marks , MOT certificates or any regulation . I'm just suggesting it would be simpler to change the system to identify the DRIVER , rather than the vehicle ( which could also be a bicycle ) and that the identification stays with that person for life , regardless of which vehicle they are driving or riding .

 

[Bellow]

Within the precincts of an Airport , the 'runners' will be on private ground ; anywhere else they stick their number in a holder ( they could even have magnetic ones they slap on the bootlid ) .

Not so - I worked for Hertz and the washbay and the carpark were connected by public roads. Additionally, delivering and collecting cars for customers was required.

 

[219]

I don't have an issue with specific cycle tracks, woods, mountain bikes.

But paths and roads are important. And there needs to be clarification that just because something is marked as a cycle route it doesn't give cyclists precedence.

Too many (not all) cyclists ride on the pavement.​

​

Too many appear to think they are allowed to ride on footpaths with little to no consideration for pedestrians - some seem to think they have right of way over pedestrians on paved foot paths.​

​

Too many provide no warning of approach to pedestrians.​

​

Too many do not observe road markings and signage (stop, one way, give way)​

​

Too many do not observe traffic lights.​

​

Too many ride without lighting.​

It has been getting worse over the last few years. The lockdown has brought out numbers who seem to have little ieda of how they should behave - and it just takes a large enough minority who misbehave to set a precedent for those who think it's OK because others do it.

All of these points support my argument that cyclists ought to be identifiable .

I will admit that I do at times cycle on the pavements at the sides of roads , if I feel that traffic makes it unsafe for me to be on the road , at risk of being hit by a bus , lorry or any other vehicle .... however , when I do , I am extremely courteous towards pedestrians , slowing , giving them a wide berth , even stopping and getting off my bike if I need to do so to pass them safely . Sadly , I know I am probably in a minority , so I would be happy to wear some sort of identifier , if that means that less responsible riders are held to account .

Same with red traffic signals and other breaches of road rules . Lighting too . My bike has lights , reflectors , working brakes , and a bell ; and I check that it is roadworthy each and every time I go out on it - not for legal paranoia , but because MY life depends on it !

 

[219]

Not so - I worked for Hertz and the washbay and the carpark were connected by public roads. Additionally, delivering and collecting cars for customers was required.

Then they slap their plate onto the vehicle , just as motor trade drivers do with trade plates in the same circumstances ; exemption can still be allowed within airport perimeters .

 

[baxlin]

Registration: years ago, British Waterways used to issue cycling permits to cycle on canal towpaths. They didn’t give cyclists any priority, in fact I think it was just a way for BW to issue a list of do’s and don’ts, but it was useful the day I was challenged by a walker for riding on the towpath, even though there was no risk of collision.

As I showed him my BW permit, I resisted the urge to ask if he had one for using the towpath......

 

[Bellow]

By your argument , no vehicles would need to have registration marks , MOT certificates or any regulation . I'm just suggesting it would be simpler to change the system to identify the DRIVER , rather than the vehicle ( which could also be a bicycle ) and that the identification stays with that person for life , regardless of which vehicle they are driving or riding .

There is a system. The car's keeper is identified and they have to provide the police when asked who the driver was. Failure to do so results in a sanction. If you are prepared to suffer that sanction then you can withhold the requested information and protect your privacy.

What you are proposing has so far strayed from the topic in question - namely, what to do about a minority of cyclists for which adequate legislation already exists and could be implemented if the police were visibly there to witness it. That all cyclists have to jump through absurd bureaucratic and unnecessary hoops is to be resisted - IMO.

 

[Bellow]

Then they slap their plate onto the vehicle , just as motor trade drivers do with trade plates in the same circumstances ; exemption can still be allowed within airport perimeters .

Are you going to spend the rest of the day proposing 'solutions' to a system only you appear to want?

 

[Dryce]

Not so - I worked for Hertz and the washbay and the carpark were connected by public roads. Additionally, delivering and collecting cars for customers was required.

This is a workplace edge case that can be dealt with.

There is a requirement for the employer to be able to identify the driver if asked. So as long as the vehicle is identifiable then ultimately so is the driver.

Hire car company staff use smartphones and tablets these days.