Mosselman twin turbo W124 300E-24V

[maggot]

Have recently taken the plunge and bought the above named kit via Ebay. According to Mosselman it really is a "bolt on" kit ,very few engine mods required. He did specify 2 step colder plugs and decent fuel, Optimax ? But that's about it.


My question to the mechanical wizards out there is , can this really be all there is to it ? Installation aside ,that is. A man who knows tells me that its liable to go bang without some pretty major work.....rods, pistons etc and that the 24V is not an especially good design to begin with.


Does anyone here have any experience of this particular set up ? I have read the Koolvin thread but this is supposed to be a kit specifically designed for the car its going to be on. So any input and or advice please folks ?

 

[GrahamC230K]

You need to talk to Mark300SL.

He fitted a Mosselmsn turbo the Koolvin's C180. I think they changed all sorts, fabricated better intercooler mounts and Koolvin ended up with an extra injector, map sensor and fuel management none of which included in the kit to get teh fuelling right on anything other than a dribble of boost.

 

[andy_k]

It's a low boost system and no interior engine mods should be required - as long as the engine hasn't done half a million miles and is worn out.

I think you need the mosselmann ECU as well - if it's the kit that was advertised on here which is going to add another £500 to your bill

I also think that somebody from here drove the car before the kit was removed (Vlad?) and commented that it didn't seem like the system was delivering much of a boost.

 

[bolide]

Mosselman turbo

I think that if you're going to have problems they'll be because of the additional heat in the engine compartment or underfuelling

I'd want to put the biggest radiator I could find in there, plus a new viscous fan, plus an underbonnet thermostat & fan with a warning light on the dash so when underbonnet temperatures rise you know about it. The 500E had extra cooling so I'd expect a twin-turbo 3-litre to need it too

I'd also put a heatshield round the turbos to try and keep heat away from the steering box, reroute any pipes that are close, and maybe put some heat shields on the bulkhead & front floor to stop heat soak into the car

I don't know what boost the kit runs but you are very likely to need more fuelling when on boost. If the existing ECU / injectors / fuel pump can't supply this (and you can only verify it on a rolling road and by monitoring CO) then they'll need uprating or replacing

If it underfuels enough you'll melt a piston or a plug and it'll ruin your whole weekend. A rolling road session (or two, or three) will be a must to get it to run right and is a very cheap way of making sure everything is OK

It goes without saying (I hope) that the ignition system and cooling system need to be absolutely 100% before you start

Demon Tweeks, Mocal and Think Automotive are useful sources of pipework, heat management technology & etc

Let us know how you get on!


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[maggot]

Thanks for the advice so far gents, keep it coming. I had already considered some of the issues raised and will be talking about these and others with the chap who hopefully is going to install it for me.


He has a 190E with a blown 550bhp 3.6 AMG engine in it ! So between us I hope we can cover all the bases.


Andy K, it was the kit seen on here and it was advertized as being without the ECU so I had budgeted for this. According to Mosselman a car without it would be well down on power, hence Vlad's impression perhaps ?


As an aside Mosselman reckoned that the 2 Silver Arrows produced by his company sometime back, a coupe and saloon ,both achieved significant increases in power through the introduction of that eighties boy racer favourite the cossie bonnet louvre. I have pm'd Koolvin as he appeared to have some on his 180. If anyone knows of a bodyshop that stamps these I would be grateful. I might be stuck in the eighties but could'nt face looking down the bonnet at a cossie louvre !


As and when things start happening I will try and post some pics, hopefully without me with head in hands .

 

[bolide]

Louvreing tool

I asked a chap at the International Historic Motorshow at the NAC about swageing tools (to make swaged holes in panels). He was sitting behind a beautiful handmade (is there any other kind?) ally Jaguar XK bonnet, still in the raw ally and bearing linishing marks

He peered at me over his glasses and said "A swageing tool? I use a hammer and a piece of steel with a hole in it!"

I think his point was that a craftsman could make anything, particularly in ally, with a hammer and about 30 years of experience

Back to louvreing tools... I think they exist but you might have to find someone who builds or restored race cars or classics to do the job

The other alternatives are to cut an ugly great hole, and then fit a grille or a NACA duct, or duct the air out via the inner wing to the wheel arch area. But it has to vent to a low-pressure area otherwise the air will flow into the underbonnet area and not out! Prime low-pressure location is normally at the base of the windscreen so vents at the back of the bonnet might be the way to go

BTW I said the E500 had additional cooling and thought it was via vents but I can't see them in photos. Was I dreaming?

If your mate has a 190 with a blown engine I'm sure he'll have most of the answers. The engine compartment on a 201 must be the same size or smaller than a 124


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[Ian B Walker]

The engine compartment on a 201 must be the same size or smaller than a 124


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

Nick I can confirm that the engine compartment of a 201 is exactly the same size as a 124. Spent a whole week measuring for my project

 

[Howard]

Dont turbo diesel 124's have vents in the front wings ? just forward of the wheelarch , could you adapt a pair of these to your needs ? then at least it would look fairly OEM .....

 

[Lazarus]

Dont turbo diesel 124's have vents in the front wings ? just forward of the wheelarch , could you adapt a pair of these to your needs ? then at least it would look fairly OEM .....

Only on one side of the car, it is to provide extra air to the engine.

There was a company callled "Kool Louvres" who I believe were based in Aylesbury who would take a standard bonnet and add cooling vents for modded Renault 5 turbos and the like.

Laz.
--

 

[-V-]

He has a 190E with a blown 550bhp 3.6 AMG engine in it !..

A 190E with 550hp!!!?????

WOW!

Is it a C36 engine? Some more specs please if you dont mind...

Thanks!

 

[Howard]

Ah , cheers Laz , i didn't know that !!

Well it was a good idea while it lasted !!

 

[bolide]

Diesel W124 wing vent

Dont turbo diesel 124's have vents in the front wings ? just forward of the wheelarch , could you adapt a pair of these to your needs ? then at least it would look fairly OEM .....

The multivalve has one vent at the front of the drivers side wing. This lets air in to the air filter so it must be a high-pressure area. So no good for an extraction vent! If you look on the front wing of Sprinter vans you'll see the same thing

Nice louvres, though!


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[maggot]

Thanks for all the louvre/vent info. I will research as much as possible before deciding what to go for as I'm going for a "sleeper" look rather than anything too showy.


The chap with the mental 190E has posted on Merc sites before but not recently I understand. I will ask if he has any objection to me/him posting some pics/details as it is an amazing piece of work.

 

[guydewdney]

The other alternatives are to cut an ugly great hole, and then fit a grille or a NACA duct, or duct the air out via the inner wing to the wheel arch area. But it has to vent to a low-pressure area otherwise the air will flow into the underbonnet area and not out! Prime low-pressure location is normally at the base of the windscreen so vents at the back of the bonnet might be the way to go
Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

Um - No - the base of the windscreen is the highest pressure point - thats why the air intake for the fans is there...

A few lotus / kit car types use kenlowe or similar fans mounted at the rear of the wheelarch blowing out to lower under bonnet temps.

But I agree that temperature will be your biggest problem - I'd also remove the insulation on the bonnet and suffer the extra noise / hot bonnet

 

[bolide]

Cool Louvres

http://www.coollouvres.com

£5 per louvre. Can't argue with that!


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[maggot]

Well, things finally moving forward. Car's booked in for a rolling road power run this AM so the turbo kit can be assessed working from a standard figure.

Must confess to being a little apprehensive. I feel the car runs very well as is but always the pessamist am looking at worst case scenarios all the time.......car runs at 150bhp so I end up fitting turbos just to get back to standard figures...D'OH ! Will find out in a few hours so fingers crossed.


ECU on the way from Mosselman........would only deal in cash ! I did offer to meet him at a disused airfield lit only by car headlights for the transaction but he did'nt get the inference. Too much 'erb for my dutch friend perhaps ?


Thanks again for all the info and input. Lourve wise, having considered several options, my man gives me the number for a guy doing custom bodywork operating about 1km from where I live. Methinks I need to get out more, never realized all these bods where on my own doorstep. Have yet to speak with him but am leaning toward a NACA style duct in the bonnet. Not really the aesthetic choice but the most effective for this application. The mad 190E uses the same and its not too overt.


Speaking of which, its due for paint in the next week or so and then will be on the streets, so pics and info to follow. My car is booked in for the 9th Nov. and it can't come soon enough

 

[Vlad]

I also think that somebody from here drove the car before the kit was removed (Vlad?) and commented that it didn't seem like the system was delivering much of a boost.[/QUOTE]

Sorry for late reply, I've only just picked up on this thread.

Not wishing to dampen anybody's fire, but when I drove the car with this Mosselman kit, it was way down on power and the kit looked very tired with lots of split hoses etc etc.

Hopefully its just a case of general refurbishment and getting it set up right....good luck.

I also saw mention of the Mosselman Silver Arrow cars......those have to be my favourite tuned Mercedes...I love the wheels and the overall look of them...are the wheels on the Silver Arrows, Mosselman wheels or are they made by somebody else. Any idea's

 

[bolide]

Um - No - the base of the windscreen is the highest pressure point - thats why the air intake for the fans is there...

That makes sense thinbking about it! Many of the period racecars I see have the back of the bonnet raised to let hot air out of the engine compartment but they must have it wrong

I suppose it's possible to test by taping a few pieces of wool to the bonnet & taking it for a drive - just see where they end up pointing! I must do this someday


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[kth286]

Martin

Mosselman used to get the wheels designed to his own spec and get them painted metallic dark grey to match the wheels of the group C racing cars.

I also love the look of the cars (and the performance of the 300CE-24 at 5.9 secs 0-62mph and 0-125mph 22.6 secs compared to standard at 35.8 secs).

Your silver/grey would make a good starting point for a conversion!!!!!!!!

Regards

Keith

 

[andy_k]

That makes sense thinbking about it! Many of the period racecars I see have the back of the bonnet raised to let hot air out of the engine compartment but they must have it wrong

I suppose it's possible to test by taping a few pieces of wool to the bonnet & taking it for a drive - just see where they end up pointing! I must do this someday


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

if there is no or a very small windscreen (like in the period race cars) then the space immediately behind the raised rear edge of the bonnet will be a low pressure area.

Most of the bonnet (on a W124 at least) is low pressure as the air is directed upwards by the almost vertical front of the car and just as it's about to get back to normal flow (base of the screen) then the windscreen bounces it back up again. No real need to do the wool test Nick, try it when you've just washed the car take it out for a quick drive to dry it - the water on the bonnet is almost impossible to shift

Andy