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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Stratman, Nov 6, 2008.
Culled from The Register roadpricing trials
Of course it's only for our convenience.
With congestion as it is, and increasing then we must all accept that "something" has to be done.
You only have to read this forum and others to see that it's the fault of the government, lorry drivers, polish immigrants or whoever is the next convenient scapegoat. The fact remains that we have too many cars on too few roads and at certain times of day chaos reigns. Try using the motorway network on a Friday afternoon/evening. It's simply gridlocked from the M25 to the M62. I doubt anyone could get from London to Birmingham in under 6 hours and probably the same from Birmingham to Leeds.
Personally I don't like the idea of it being done on a cost basis and would prefer something based on the lines of ability or skill levels with more and longer bans for traffic offences.(if you're not going to obey the rules get off the road kind of thing)
Those with money will no doubt tell me where to stick that idea.
The car is now an integral part of most peoples lives and it allows people to live in one part of the country and work in another, shop where and when they want. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.
But pricing is going to cause resentment because most of the people on the M25/M62/M1 etc in the rush hour are not doing it because it's fun. They need to get to and from work. Make that more expensive or try to get them onto a public transport system that doesn't work will cause far more problems than it solves.
Oh and out of town shopping centres with parking for 4000 cars and served by 2 buses an hour don't help.
What I'd really like to see is someone in power saying "Here's a problem, how can we solve it" rather than "How can we make money from it"
Never going to happen in this country!
Funny how they have so much money to spend on social programs (that benefit Labour voters), bank bailouts, SPECS cameras, speed humps, and ID cards, yet there's no money for building more roads
New Labour are the most crooked, scummy bunch of turds I've ever seen. God help us.
Sad, but true.
This summer we went to Brittany where we could park next to the beach for free, camp next to the beach for free, have a choice of 3 really nice restaurants, and hire sailing boats, kayaks, windsurfers, etc. for a really reasonable price.
There is certainly nowhere in this country that can compare.
Park by the beach? Sure, so long as you pay.
Camp by the beach for free? You must be joking! We don't want to encourage travellers.
3 nice restaurants? Well, what's wrong with greasy chips and carboard burgers?
Hire boats? No, buy your own!
Two points here
1 - i can't see them ever being able to get away with it, IF they forced it through that is about their only option. What about folkd that rely on driving for their jobs? salesmen? Lorrydrivers? All one big mess if you ask me.
2 - i have to drive to work as i live 55mile round trip. There are no buses/trains/planes/boats that do the route i do. I also cannot afford to pay more than i already am for Tax, insurance and diesel prices so what options would i have if they do force it through? walk? cycle?
I know they've been looking at this for a while as i know of someone who's been involved with a trial GPS based system for them but i don't think road pricing is the answer as - once again - it taxes the poor while the rich ignore it.
Perhaps you could think of moderating your choice of words.
is there anyone/thing that you are a fan of?
I'd be fan of anyone who wanted to repair our 3rd-world standard road surfaces, rip up the speed humps, increase the capacity of the road network, and end the war on the motorist.
I'm sick to the back teeth of leftist attacks on motorists, and their constant phony attempts to demonise us. It's no-one else's business what car I choose to drive, If I chose to drive a 4-litre Jeep Cherokee that does 10mpg then that's my choice, and I should pay exactly the same taxes as someone who drives a 1-litre Micra. That is called fairness, something that has been absent from this country in the last 10 years.
I shouldn't have my motoring costs artificially inflated by Labour's frivolous taxes.
Not if thats how he feels - frankly I am with him on this one and think his choice of words is rather conservative (pun intended). Once again the only answer this mentally deficient government can think of is a financial one-look around the rest of the planet and see there are so many better ways to do things (and I am not just refering to motoring).
hmmm there's free sea front parking here (plenty of it), plenty of restaurants (italian, Belgian and traditional english), boat hire can easily be aranged at the sailing club (on the beach). Sadly we are a bit short of campsites although there are a couple a bit further down the coast that are cheap and good and the council/police tend to turn a blind eye to motorhomes that park up overnight on the west end of the beach
Loads of places in Wales allow camping on or right next to the beach none are free but it's always reasonable to pay for facilities
"rough camping" is allowed pretty much all over Scotland so you could always head there
So, why not have a look around this country before immediately assuming that it it's impossible
Back to the topic........
Road charging - just another way of taxing motorists
Or, if I'm the PM, and if I choose to drive around in a 5 tonne Range Rover that does 2mpg. AND, break any speed limit I see fit, I can, it's my choice, just as long as some other poor bugger is paying for it!!! While keeping out the bluddy way!
I think i am with ms500 on this one.
it has been shown time and again that charging more money, does not reduce congestion. It does make money for a lot of people.
If they can agree that if the place does not decongest, they will reverse the pricing then fair enough.
will they ever ? no.
much like speed cameras then..... good old government.
Road pricing will reduce congestion, there's no doubt about it, but it's a very blunt instrument. It will force the less well off to prioritise while doing nothing to prevent completely frivolous journies by the rich. Will a footballer really be put off driving to his agent's club by road pricing, especially if there are no poor people to get in his way?
What is needed is a system that is independent of ability to pay, one that is based on need. Pick holes in this:-
To promote fewer journies and better fuel consumption each person with a taxed vehicle will recieve an annual fuel allowance of 1200 litres, based on just over 9000 miles per annum at 35 mpg. If Carlos Kickaball wants to blow it in his Hummer that's up to him, but he won't be going too far in it. Need to do more miles? Get a more fuel-efficient car. Remember, it's one allowance per driver, not per car.
would there be a black market in fuel... ie could a rich person buy fuel from someone who registered (for arguments sake) a 1981 mini and kept it in their drive and never moved it thus making a tidy profit?
how would taxis and delivery drivers operate on their allowance and how would you police a private journey from a working one.
how would the nurse presently commuting in her micra 50 miles to work to a London hospital - because she cant afford to live nearer - manage?
but it's got me thinking!!
Not wanting to get political but what we need is an incentive for employers to promote working from home or highly staggered working hours in order to reduce the choke points and flash queues we see every day between 7-9am and 5-7pm. This will have to come from the Gov't I suppose.
Same story in Morecambe, there are often quite a few campers parked alongside the promenade, about 10 metres from the beach with no restrictions whatsoever.
Very likely, but the total amount of fuel 'in circulation' and hence the total amount of car miles would be the same.
No idea. I was doing little more than thinking out loud. Now you've got me thinking!
Work in a hospital nearer to home? When all the nurses are priced out of major city hospitals the government will soon come up with a solution.