Motoring in Britain:- the future

[Dieselman]

the point is claiming that to force a V8 owner to fork out £1000 in charges helps to cut congestion, without taking it into consideration that he drives it one a week on sunday and then letting a micra pay £100 to do millions of miles, will not save the planet

I understood that, but one has to have constants hence the charge per unit of use. In this case per kilometer.

Fuel duty takes care of the variable element.

 

[recycled]

I understood that, but one has to have constants hence the charge per unit of use. In this case per kilometer.

Fuel duty takes care of the variable element.

Fair enough but the goalposts get moved as soon as manufacturers and car owners, tend to adjust their lifestyles to the new taxes. . 4* to LRP to unleaded to diesel to LPG.?
if we all buy little micras when the charges start, you can be rest assured some smart a*** think tank will come and say, sorry micras now pollute more than V8's . inrease the road tax for small cars

 

[st4]

Not in this case as I was attempting to get an answer given that it has been accepted that the issue of rising Co2 is fact and Governments have agreed to act on it.

Forget attempting to avoid the question and accept that the mandate is set and an answer has to be found.

Given that scenario what is anyones proposal.

My answer is to requestion what has been IMHO blindly accepted...

But I'll play within your very narrow confined rules, I'd argue that cars aren't a major source of man made CO2 (neither is aviation) and when countries like china errect 2 coal power stations per week, and brazil cuts down lots of tree's that road based transport is "the needle in the haystack".

We can cut our carbon footprints, so can all of europe, and guess what, the impact wouldn't be that severe when you have countries like india and china developing at the rate they are - maybe the credit crunch will slow them up a bit but you can see the trend, just like we can all see the trend with oil prices

 

[st4]

I understood that, but one has to have constants hence the charge per unit of use. In this case per kilometer.

Fuel duty takes care of the variable element.

Great, so we can have a similar thing for rapid charging electric vehicles, no need for spy boxes. Fuel duty is a fair method of tax, no spying, usage based, car based etc. Fuel duty (unless you have an efficient dynamics BMW) even acts as a CC, look at your town driving MPG.

 

[recycled]

Great, so we can have a similar thing for rapid charging electric vehicles, no need for spy boxes. Fuel duty is a fair method of tax, no spying, usage based, car based etc.

I fear though that the motorist is a hounded specie. It is easy cash and no matter what steps we take, electric or not, LPG or not, it is easy to say
( the demand for electricity has gone up) so we are putting duty up for electric cars to reduce demand.
Any excuse but the motorist will still be taxed to death. No matter what you drive.

Do we really think if everyone bought a bluemotion tommorow the DVLA will just let its road tax go to Zero?
why do you think they are ready to invest millions in technology to catch out or motorists? it is because of the returns in the investment.

It is relentless

 

[Dieselman]

My answer is to requestion what has been IMHO blindly accepted...

But I'll play within your very narrow confined rules, I'd argue that cars aren't a major source of man made CO2 (neither is aviation) and when countries like china errect 2 coal power stations per week, and brazil cuts down lots of tree's that road based transport is "the needle in the haystack".

We can cut our carbon footprints, so can all of europe, and guess what, the impact wouldn't be that severe when you have countries like india and china developing at the rate they are - maybe the credit crunch will slow them up a bit but you can see the trend, just like we can all see the trend with oil prices

Sorry to be a pain but
A) What is your suggested answer to the problem and
B) you need to do some homework on worldwide emissions.

The issue is dead simple.
as a Government you have to reduce CO2 emissions from vehicles owned by your populace.

Answers..??

 

[st4]

I fear though that the motorist is a hounded specie. It is easy ash an no matter what steps we take, electric or not, LPG or not, it is easy to say
( the demand for electricity has gone up) so we are putting duty up for electric cars to reduce demand.
Any excuse but the motorist will still betaxed to death. No matter what you drive

I fear you are right. I wish I was an older man so don't have to live through the decline of british motoring. The tax I can almost stomach if I felt I got something back like nice motorways to drive on, the being spied on like a kiddy fiddler I cannot (spy box, electronic tag, whats the difference).

 

[recycled]

Sorry to be a pain but
A) What is your suggested answer to the problem and
B) you need to do some homework on worldwide emissions.

The issue is dead simple.
as a Government you have to reduce CO2 emissions from vehicles owned by your populace.

Answers..??

I can try.
First we cannot solve a problem if we can not even get the problem right.

Cutting car CO2 will not have any effect on climate change in this country

Answer.
Reduce world population. that would reduce CO2

stop cutting down trees and parks and building more houses, as trees need CO2 for survival

If the government wants to reduce CO2 emmisions from cars,(which they think is causing the problem as i do not) ban every car today from britain with over 100g of CO2. Do not take money of people then allow the cars as we will have a rich government and no CO2 reduction. which i think they are more intersted in rather than any emmision reduction.
Simple


why do we not just tax everyone carrying a knife in london and see if that will suddenly reduce knife crime.

Invest heavily in public transport and if possible, subsidise it by 50% rather than giving it to fat cat directors living on greedy salaries

 

[st4]

Sorry to be a pain but
A) What is your suggested answer to the problem and
B) you need to do some homework on worldwide emissions.

The issue is dead simple.
as a Government you have to reduce CO2 emissions from vehicles owned by your populace.

Answers..??

A) Answers on a postcard, what can we do about a global problem if not everyone plays ball. Are developing countries doing so? They build coal power stations and power their nations, Gordy Clown won't allow us the same privilidge as it will bump up our Carbon footprint.
B) Last time I looked man made Co2 emissions accounted for 3% of world wide CO2. Cars are about 1/4 of this 3% IIRC. Given the size of the UK this is a very inconsequential amount of the global picture. I'd argue the government need do nothing.

If you have radically different figures to mine, please put them up as this is what I am going by when I put my posts up. I don't like homework, never was any good at it

Looking further I'd argue our long term future relies on renewable energy, solar power, hydroelectic, wind and wave power. Given the supposed change in climate and all these extra winds we have, harnessing some of that power can't be a bad one.

 

[stevesey]

The issue is dead simple.
as a Government you have to reduce CO2 emissions from vehicles owned by your populace.

Answers..??

The answer is simple, and painful - fuel tax. None of us will like it, but it does work, this summers fuel prices increases had a feal and noticable effect on petrol sales and hence vehicle C02.

If you do lots of miles for work - buy a eccomical, or electric car, or pay through the hose. If you want a big V8 for the weekend, you only get penailised for the extra CO2 you produce. If you sit in congestion you also end up paying more.

Not that I want to see this happen.

 

[Dieselman]

If the government wants to reduce CO2 emmisions from cars,(which they think is causing the problem) ban every car today from britain with over 100g of CO2.

Hmm...Just like has happened in other arenas other than cars.

I doubt that would be too popular round here though, but on that

Vote Recycled..

 

[stevesey]

Another painful answer - a global recession. I wonder how many of those unreachable CO2 targets will actually be reached as a result of recession.

 

[Dieselman]

A) Answers on a postcard, what can we do about a global problem if not everyone plays ball. Are developing countries doing so? They build coal power stations and power their nations, Gordy Clown won't allow us the same privilidge as it will bump up our Carbon footprint.
B) Last time I looked man made Co2 emissions accounted for 3% of world wide CO2. Cars are about 1/4 of this 3% IIRC. Given the size of the UK this is a very inconsequential amount of the global picture. I'd argue the government need do nothing.

If you have radically different figures to mine, please put them up as this is what I am going by when I put my posts up. I don't like homework, never was any good at it

Looking further I'd argue our long term future relies on renewable energy, solar power, hydroelectic, wind and wave power. Given the supposed change in climate and all these extra winds we have, harnessing some of that power can't be a bad one.

Anywhere with the actual issue.....yet..

 

[recycled]

Hmm...Just like has happened in other arenas other than cars.

I doubt that would be too popular round here though, but on that

Vote Recycled..

Well it would work and it would prove it is not the money they are after, which right now most people know it is.

 

[recycled]

The answer is simple, and painful - fuel tax. None of us will like it, but it does work, this summers fuel prices increases had a feal and noticable effect on petrol sales and hence vehicle C02.

.

I am not sure that even caused a dent in the CO2 figures in the world. it did make many people rich though and stopped a few driving, but the CO2 figures were still up. proving cars are not the problem at least not in britain

 

[st4]

Hmm...Just like has happened in other arenas other than cars.

I doubt that would be too popular round here though, but on that

Vote Recycled..

Well thats your wheels redundant, and mine. I haven't got enough for a Tesla which is a shame, they're fast.

I'd respect a government that did that far more however as at least you could say they are acting on their convictions and on what they believe in.

I'd moan too about the CO2 theory being flawed and argue that they were ignorant, but I'd never say they were apathetic or spineless or that their intention wasn't good willed for the greater good. Money doesn't switch hands with rules like that you see, and whilst its draconian, there is no perverse logic to it.

The current system IMHO is just a money making sham and a very obvious one.

 

[Dieselman]

The answer is simple, and painful - fuel tax. None of us will like it, but it does work, this summers fuel prices increases had a feal and noticable effect on petrol sales and hence vehicle C02.

If you do lots of miles for work - buy a eccomical, or electric car, or pay through the hose. If you want a big V8 for the weekend, you only get penailised for the extra CO2 you produce. If you sit in congestion you also end up paying more.

Not that I want to see this happen.

How much do you think then.? An additional £1 per litre tax.
It would be cheaper to pay the additional VED..

For such a small sum of additional payment the new VED system works wonders at focusing peoples minds on reducing emissions.

The problem with higher fuel prices is that wealthy people can ignore the cost whereas with VED it has a direct impact on 2nd hand desirbility of the cars so a much greater impact.

Another painful answer - a global recession. I wonder how many of those unreachable CO2 targets will actually be reached as a result of recession.

I think you could well be right.

 

[st4]

Anywhere with the actual issue.....yet..

Any actual radically different figures to suggest there is any point in taking real action over what I've illustrated to be a red herring

 

[Dieselman]

The current system IMHO is just a money making sham and a very obvious one.

As far as making additional money how do they do that if 57% of drivers pay the same or less than before.?
In addition the average Co2 output of cars in the UK has dropped from about 220g/km to 180g/km, thus they incur a lower charge also compared to the old scheme.
How is that making money.?

If I was a sceptic and your car was below 100g/km I would suspect you would be saying this scheme was the best thing since sliced bread....

No, don't tell me, you would pay the higher rate, just to be fair..


Still no suggestions yet..go on give one a go..

 

[Dieselman]

Any actual radically different figures to suggest there is any point in taking real action over what I've illustrated to be a red herring

I wish I could avoid issues at work like this...

You should be a politician.