Motoring in Britain:- the future

[recycled]

Compared to chopping peoples heads off, or gassing them, not really.

And of course, that depends on whether people really are being ripped off.

well to be honest i said overpopulation should be looked at.
Never said chop exisiting people heads off or gas anyone.
Simply target miss no job - 50 kids on benefits -- really a drain on resources, taxes and fossil fuels.
Chances are all those kids will grow up and will all be on benefits too. imagine the drain on gas and heating and land for bigger houses and all the CO2 them kids are breathing out.

 

[andy_k]

Foreign visitors would have to pay our fuel prices. I would also have a charge at the ferry ports/tunnel crossing for foreign vehicles in leiu of road tax to use the roads

it was all going well until you got to that bit

Foreign visitors could easily fill up in their own country before coming here (just like they do now) and we only pay on their toll roads because we choose to use them - there are alternatives. By slapping a blanket "visitors tax" on everybody that crosses our borders we would deter tourists from visiting this country

Would you also advocate that any British people returning from a European holiday having to empty their tanks at Dover (or whichever port) and using UK only fuel on our roads?

by all means get rid of road tax and put a couple of pence on the price of a litre but then stand back and wait for the riot when everybody expects to be classed as an "essential user" and demands a discount

 

[Dieselman]

by all means get rid of road tax and put a couple of pence on the price of a litre but then stand back and wait for the riot when everybody expects to be classed as an "essential user" and demands a discount

I thought members were generally against high taxation on road fuel. Maybe I'm wrong but we've had lots of threads where that has been demonstrated.

If we say add 2p per litre and a driver drives 15,000 miles per annum at 30mpg, that's and additional £45 for fuel.
That means that 57% of drivers will be worse off and some of those will be far worse off as their VED has dropped by £100.


Would small figures like that be enough to encourage people to drive more efficient vehicles.? Maybe the figure would need to be 50p/litre which would affect poorer users the most.
The current system allows less well off people to reduce their outgoings. Is that unfair.?

 

[nick mercedes]

I think that you should be able to drive any car that you want to.

Motorists have become the ultimate cash cows for the government.

Over the last few years so much has happened to really impact the average car owner, ANPR, road tax being linked to co2, tolls, LEZ, section 59 vehicle siezure (your car can be taken off you if someone reports you for an *alleged* crime), road pricing...........................

We should revolt, greedy politicians heads on spikes and all that.

Or move to France...

 

[Dieselman]

Or move to France...

Not sure that would help much...

2,600 euro tax for cars over 250g/km...

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/12/france-to-insti.html

2,000 euros tax in Ireland not looking too healthy either.

 

[st4]

Motorists have become the ultimate cash cows for the government.

Over the last few years so much has happened to really impact the average car owner, ANPR, road tax being linked to co2, tolls, LEZ, section 59 vehicle siezure (your car can be taken off you if someone reports you for an *alleged* crime), road pricing...........................

We should revolt, greedy politicians heads on spikes and all that.

Or move to France...

All correct til we come to the move to France bit. Why should some dillusional eco hippy left wing force me out pf great britain. Its about time the British motorist acted and protested more rather than apathetically taking it on the chin.

Dieselman talks of carbon transfer, and in such another misconception arises. The phrase carbon emissions. Carbon exists as graphite and diamond in its elemental form (and also buckmininsterfulerene and other large C molecules) but at no where in the global warming cycle is carbon ever vaporised in its elemental form. It remains bonded to oxygen making CO2. Its what happens to the CO2 that counts, and the equilibria between CO2 held in the atmosphere to that held in the sinks (think oceans and the photosynthesis reaction converting CO2 to O2). Dieselman says we are upsetting this, but maybe the equilbira moves naturally.

The extra CO2 we produce may shift this balance a little, but this equilibria that existed before we started driving V8 range rovers shifted of its own accord anyway, hence the past climates debate that I refer back to. Have we shifted it, maybe, but probably by an tiny amount. read recycled signature, if we plant more tree's we creat a greater CO2 sink to absorb what we produce. Biofuels by this context will offset any extra CO2 emissions, as these plants will aborb Co2 created by burning them. We should have kept our empire and grown our fuel abroad :bannana:

 

[recycled]

All correct til we come to the move to France bit. Why should some dillusional eco hippy left wing force me out pf great britain. Its about time the British motorist acted and protested more rather than apathetically taking it on the chin.

Dieselman talks of carbon transfer, and in such another misconception arises. The phrase carbon emissions. Carbon exists as graphite and diamond in its elemental form (and also buckmininsterfulerene and other large C molecules) but at no where in the global warming cycle is carbon ever vaporised in its elemental form. It remains bonded to oxygen making CO2. Its what happens to the CO2 that counts, and the equilibria between CO2 held in the atmosphere to that held in the sinks (think oceans and the photosynthesis reaction converting CO2 to O2). Dieselman says we are upsetting this, but maybe the equilbira moves naturally.

The extra CO2 we produce may shift this balance a little, but this equilibria that existed before we started driving V8 range rovers shifted of its own accord anyway, hence the past climates debate that I refer back to. Have we shifted it, maybe, but probably by an tiny amount. read recycled signature, if we plant more tree's we creat a greater CO2 sink to absorb what we produce. Biofuels by this context will offset any extra CO2 emissions, as these plants will aborb Co2 created by burning them. We should have kept our empire and grown our fuel abroad :bannana:

absolutely spot on.
Can not add any more to that except if DM wants to add carbonates of calcium to the equation.
CACO3 anyone?

 

[st4]

absolutely spot on.
Can not add any more to that except if DM wants to add carbonates of calcium to the equation.
CACO3 anyone?

Oh boy, this will be a long one. I imagine that CaO + CO2 = CaCO3 and viceversa.Again its an equilibria reaction that shifts according to lechateliers principle.

 

[recycled]

well they can always claim that limestone and marble are disintegrating to release CAO and CO2.
solution? increase VED

 

[st4]

well they can always claim that limestone and marble are disintegrating to release CAO and CO2.
solution? increase VED

And thats just it-it comes down to money, whenever their is an option to tax someone who drives a car, then a European government will do it. They've even anticipated electic cars with zero tail pipe emissions and now have to think up fiendish ways to extort cash from people, like spy boxes and road toles.

Think about road toles another way, they are akin to putting barriers up on your local high street and making you put 50p or whatever in so you can walk to the shops. It inhibits movement.

 

[hawk20]

error

 

[hawk20]

It is going to be fascinating to see Obama trying to deliver all the alternative energies, and freedom from imported oil etc etc that were promised while oil was $147 per barrel. Trouble is none of these will be economic now that oil has gone back down to less than half the peak levels.

 

[RoseTattoo]

We have all been living in the balmy eye of the storm. When main raods really got going in Britain tehy were known as turnpikes and paying a toll was the norm.
Highway robbery was also the norm, conducted by Highwaymen. Times change but taxes and their effect do not.

As I have said before while the effect appears to be recognised, the cause is mistaken.
The cause is not the Governemnt attempting to rob us through taxes, the government is only our agent in this, raiisng money for the services that we, as a civilised country, require. We may argue with how these are spent and distributed but it is that simple.
The cause of the problem is overcrowding or congestion as it is sometimes called although this is only a sympton.
Not only are we suffering population explosion, we as individuals are becoming wealthier and demanding more; houses, houses further form work, more goods, more goods to be delivered to far away shopping centres.
Sorry but this process is inevtable, can only get worse, it is not caused by any bogey man governbemnt but by the very people doing the complaining.
I for one do not want to see the whole country concreted over and so I do not have a problem with it. The governemnt on the other hand is your friend, as they wnat to keep your vote and tehrefore they do only the minimum necessary. Give them credit.

 

[hawk20]

The cause is not the Governemnt attempting to rob us through taxes, the government is only our agent in this, raiisng money for the services that we, as a civilised country, require. We may argue with how these are spent and distributed but it is that simple.
The cause of the problem is overcrowding or congestion as it is sometimes called although this is only a sympton.
Not only are we suffering population explosion, we as individuals are becoming wealthier and demanding more; houses, houses further form work, more goods, more goods to be delivered to far away shopping centres.
Sorry but this process is inevtable, can only get worse, it is not caused by any bogey man governbemnt but by the very people doing the complaining.
I for one do not want to see the whole country concreted over and so I do not have a problem with it. The governemnt on the other hand is your friend, as they wnat to keep your vote and tehrefore they do only the minimum necessary. Give them credit.

Mandelson could not have done better when he ran the govt spin machine. The overcrowding is due to govt policies. No cap on immigration from outside Europe and no pressure to change policy inside europe either. France and Germany limited immigration from INSIDE Europe. Blair said we did not need to.

Govt chooses to bury us all in more speed cameras than every other country in Europe put together.

Govt chooses to clobber the motorist in taxation policies and chooses to build hardly any new roads.

The govt is our (the motorists') friend? What nonsense.

 

[MangoMan]

We have all been living in the balmy eye of the storm. When main raods really got going in Britain tehy were known as turnpikes and paying a toll was the norm.
Highway robbery was also the norm, conducted by Highwaymen. Times change but taxes and their effect do not.

As I have said before while the effect appears to be recognised, the cause is mistaken.
The cause is not the Governemnt attempting to rob us through taxes, the government is only our agent in this, raiisng money for the services that we, as a civilised country, require. We may argue with how these are spent and distributed but it is that simple.
The cause of the problem is overcrowding or congestion as it is sometimes called although this is only a sympton.
Not only are we suffering population explosion, we as individuals are becoming wealthier and demanding more; houses, houses further form work, more goods, more goods to be delivered to far away shopping centres.
Sorry but this process is inevtable, can only get worse, it is not caused by any bogey man governbemnt but by the very people doing the complaining.
I for one do not want to see the whole country concreted over and so I do not have a problem with it. The governemnt on the other hand is your friend, as they wnat to keep your vote and tehrefore they do only the minimum necessary. Give them credit.

Who the hell is your 'Boss' I wonder!?