My friend Dave needs some car tax advice

[Charles Morgan]

Dave could book the new ( to him ) car in for an MOT near his home , then , as long as valid insurance is in place , he can legally drive 'to the pre-arranged test' regardless of the tax status .

It's a rather wonderful little irony that a car with no tax or MOT may lawfully be driven 150 miles by its new owner, but a taxed car with MOT can't.

Dave said the seller, being someone who runs a business, has politely declined the opportunity to take a day off to drive the car to him. Something about if he's paid the tax which he won't get back, why has this absurd system been invented?

 

[smurgewurfler]

Time to write to your MP. Anyone would think that this had been carefully crafted so as to maximise the revenue to the government by effectively invalidating tax already paid on a car at the moment it changes ownership. Or is that too cynical?

 

[Giantvanman]

The tax ceases on day of transfer/purchase but the seller only gets refunded whole months. The buyer pays from the beginning of the month of the date of transfer. So the only way to comply in this new digital scheme, is to go to the post office on the day of purchase? How ludicrous. I just hope a stated case or two sorts this mess out.

 

[John Jones Jr]

So, if a car has an MOT, is taxed (because the DVLA would not have updated their records due time delay between transferring ownership) and insured by the new owner how can this be an issue? I'm asking as I wish to buy a car in London for export and will need to drive it to the port. Am I now asking for potential trouble?

 

[martin_a]

I'm afraid the DVLA has gone from being one of the best run and efficient government organisations to being a run-of-the-mill beuracratic nightmare.

The rot set in the day they closed the local offices and it's been an absolute joke since then.

Eh?

This the same DVLA famous for losing new keeper records. Rubbish at post generally. Sending out the SORN notices for no reason etc?

Like a lot of public offices it was bloated and badly run with a lot of people stealing a wage.

Now, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to deal with the public all day but even going to the local office was a joke. I lost several months of tax back because I didn't have proof of postage for the day I sent my tax back (and I was chasing them to find out why I hadn't heard as per their instructions). Apparently handing it over the desk, at their office, thus placing it immediately into their care, didn't count and "I should have got proof of posting".

No wonder they were shut down when they didn't want people to use them in the first place.

 

[trapperjohn]

The whole thing is pants for sure.

I paid six months fee for 5 and threequarter months road tax. As I bought my new to me C270 Estate in the last week of October. Poor old seller, sorry Camerafodder, dips out on a refund for all of October. Now that is pants.

As someone else has stated the DVLA earns a few extra bob like this but is the hassle worth it. If the car is insured and taxed and previous owner is sending off the old V5 the old computers cannot know there is no road tax for at least a couple of days. Dave should drive it but on a light foot only.

I dont think that a car without an MoT pings the pinger in a police car.

 

[MicB]

I think the car is taxed at least until the end of any given month regardless of ownership/registered keeper. DVLA have the money; the car is taxed and can be driven on the public highway.
The fact is that the car is taxed and I do not believe that DVLA will refund the vendor before such time as they are satisfied that the car has been sold and purchased and tax is continuous (or much more likely tax is duplicated for the month of the transaction) by virtue of the purchaser having re-taxed the car or the car is again SORNED.
Surely this must be the sole justification for the duplication of tax for the month in which a car changes ownership given that tax is not transferable?

That is how I see it and I would drive the car.

Mic

This proves nothing but I offer this example of the timetable for a recent transaction.

I sold my CL420 28.10.14, with the V5C catching the postal collection next day.
Today I received from DVLA an acknowledgement of the sale and by separate delivery a cheque for the refund of the prepaid November and December Tax.
The cheque is dated 05 November 2014.

I would be very surprised if any refunds are raised in the same month that the sale/purchase of the transaction of the vehicle takes place even if the transaction is much earlier in the month than in my case.

Mic

 

[davidjpowell]

The whole thing is pants for sure.

I paid six months fee for 5 and threequarter months road tax. As I bought my new to me C270 Estate in the last week of October. Poor old seller, sorry Camerafodder, dips out on a refund for all of October. Now that is pants.

As someone else has stated the DVLA earns a few extra bob like this but is the hassle worth it. If the car is insured and taxed and previous owner is sending off the old V5 the old computers cannot know there is no road tax for at least a couple of days. Dave should drive it but on a light foot only.

I dont think that a car without an MoT pings the pinger in a police car.

Chap I know (who is a well paid FD with a knackered Mondeo), pinged the Plod PC for no MOT - He'd missed it. I think they have to be bored or hoping for better things to make a stop worthwhile though...

 

[trapperjohn]

Thank you David, that clears that one up then.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

No wonder they were shut down when they didn't want people to use them in the first place.

I can't account for your experiences, obviously, but my former local DVLA office at Sheffield was really good, very helpful.

As an example as to the debacle now; my father-in-law bought a C220 CDI Sport at the end of June and s by of the relevant paperwork to assign his private plate. The DVLA then sent the V5 with his private plate on to the previous owner, yet sent the MOT and tax disc to my F-I-L. The whole debacle has only just been resolved after over four months of faffing.

Add to this the new tax system and its just a recipe for disaster.

 

[Charles Morgan]

So, if a car has an MOT, is taxed (because the DVLA would not have updated their records due time delay between transferring ownership) and insured by the new owner how can this be an issue? I'm asking as I wish to buy a car in London for export and will need to drive it to the port. Am I now asking for potential trouble?

If you are exporting it, just get it out of the country before the DVLA get the paperwork.

When I stayed with my sister's Romanian ex-au-pair she had some young Romanians come to stay in the UK. They bought an Old Merc Sprinter and filled it with Mercedes parts from breakers all over the country, then drove back. I asked the night before they left about how much it cost them to insure, to find out they neither had insurance, nor in one case a license...

 

[John Jones Jr]

If you are exporting it, just get it out of the country before the DVLA get the paperwork.

That's my thinking alright (with insurance & MOT of course) as I sure wouldn't like to pay a 320 mile recovery charge for car that will not get a ANPR system excited.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Just drive it.

The worst that can happen is that you drive through a DVLA ANPR trap, it will show as taxed until the sale is registered.

In some ways the new system is simpler than before.

 

[Benzowner]

Are the DVLA issuing date related tax or are they still using the monthly system? Person X selling the car has paid for a months(probably6) tax and person Y buys the car half way through a month. Under the old system, the car would be taxed at leat until the end of the month. Also, when the car is sold, if the sale is not recorded online at the DVLA and relies on the post, they will not record the no tax for at least a day, if the post is that good, or more if a second class stop is used.

 

[219]

I dont think that a car without an MoT pings the pinger in a police car.

It may or may not show up on ANPR , but I was certainly pulled for exactly that reason late on a Christmas eve two or three years back .

I had submitted my car for MOT a few days before it was due to expire , but due to work being needed , parts having to be ordered and the garage being busy at that time of year , the old MOT expired whilst the car was in their care .

Since , in the absence of my car , I was using the train to get to work , the garage had closed by the time I was able to collect my newly MOT'd car off their forecourt on Christmas eve ( I was on good terms with the garage and they were happy for my to return and pay once they were open again ) .

Getting into Aberdeen at about 11:30 pm , I was welcomed to the city by blue flashing lights and , on stopping , the policeman took on an accusing tone , asking if I knew why they had stopped me ! Of course , I was at a loss , and it was only when I was in the back seat of the police car and questioned about the car's MOT status that the penny dropped At first , I don't think they believed me that the car had passed its test only a few hours earlier .

To top things off , the garage had not left the new MOT certificate in the car when they left it out for me to collect , but , to satisfy myself the test had been carried out , I had visited the MOT info website and printed off confirmation that the car had passed that evening . Thankfully , this was accepted and we were able to continue our journey after an amicable parting .

To summarise , I'm not sure whether MOT status will 'ping' on an ANPR check , but it most certainly can be queried via a PNC enquiry - which is what I think the cops did - only there is a delay ( overnight ? ) before the VOSA computer updates the PNC with the most recent data .

 

[219]

The tax ceases on day of transfer/purchase but the seller only gets refunded whole months. The buyer pays from the beginning of the month of the date of transfer. So the only way to comply in this new digital scheme, is to go to the post office on the day of purchase? How ludicrous. I just hope a stated case or two sorts this mess out.

Perfect if , as many people do , one buys a car on a Sunday , when most Post Offices are closed

 

[219]

If you are exporting it, just get it out of the country before the DVLA get the paperwork.

When I stayed with my sister's Romanian ex-au-pair she had some young Romanians come to stay in the UK. They bought an Old Merc Sprinter and filled it with Mercedes parts from breakers all over the country, then drove back. I asked the night before they left about how much it cost them to insure, to find out they neither had insurance, nor in one case a license...

Given their other admitted misdemeanours , was 'bought' a euphemism regarding their acquisition of said van ( and contents ) ?

 

[DSM10000]

Perfect if , as many people do , one buys a car on a Sunday , when most Post Offices are closed

Why would you need a Post Office? you can apply for VED on line.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Given their other admitted misdemeanours , was 'bought' a euphemism regarding their acquisition of said van ( and contents ) ?

Oddly enough no, they bought an 03 Sprinter (the usual dented rustheap) from a Chinese food wholesaler for cash, toured all the breakers they could find with cash, and took the lovely sister of my friend to navigate and translate as they couldn't speak a word. I admired their entrepreneurial spirit, if not their lack of insurance and plan to drive back non stop!

 

[DSM10000]

I admired their entrepreneurial spirit, if not their lack of insurance and plan to drive back non stop!

"One day Rodney, will both be millionaires"!