My mum and dad are looking at a 1.5 A160 CVT, are they good cars?

[martin33100]

Hi, just want a little advice on the 1.5 A160 CVT.
My mum and dad currently have a nice mk 5 golf with the DSG box but they are thinking of buying a smaller car and have been and looked at this car at our local garage

Mercedes-Benz A Class 1.5 A160 Avantgarde SE CVT 5dr

As I have read mixed reviews on the 1.5 and CVT box I was wondering if anyone on here could advise also.

Thanks in advance.

 

[wongl]

My experience with the second generation A-Class (W169) has been good - we have three of them in our family and looking to acquire a fourth one for our youngest daughter.

Watch out for rust on the bottom door seams on pre-facelift model (circa 2005 to 2008) with the oval door mirrors. The face-lift models (from mid-2008) with the rectangular mirrors have a different door seam which is an improvement and less prone to rust.

Other things to watch out for, alternator, starter and air-con compressors can go at high mileage and can be relatively expensive to replace as the car really needs to be up in the air on ramps for access. If going for the CVT model make sure that the gearbox oil and filter have been replaced at the prescribed intervals. Do not touch one without history of this vital gearbox oil changes!

Beware that the CVT gearbox can go wrong as there is an inherent weakness in the TCU where 4 contact wires for the speed sensors have been known to break off causing an intermittent fault (limp mode) which requires an expensive TCU replacement (£1000+) from Mercedes plus fitting. However, ECUTesting.com can repair this kind of fault (despite Mercedes saying it is not possible) and total repair costs including removal and installation should be around £500 from a reputable indie.

I would suggest looking for a face-lift model with folding mirrors and factory fitted front and rear parking sensors (to take advantage of parking assist a fun and useful parking feature for tight parallel spaces).

 

[martin33100]

My experience with the second generation A-Class (W169) has been good - we have three of them in our family and looking to acquire a fourth one for our youngest daughter.
Watch out for rust on the bottom door seams on pre-facelift model (circa 2005 to 2008) with the oval door mirrors. The face-lift models (from mid-2008) with the rectangular mirrors have a different door seam which is an improvement and less prone to rust.

Other things to watch out for, alternator, starter and air-con compressors can go at high mileage and can be relatively expensive to replace as the car really needs to be up in the air on ramps for access. If going for the CVT model make sure that the gearbox oil and filter have been replaced at the prescribed intervals. Do not touch one without history of this vital gearbox oil changes!

Beware that the CVT gearbox can go wrong as there is an inherent weakness in the TCU where 4 contact wires for the speed sensors have been known to break off causing an intermittent fault (limp mode) which requires an expensive TCU replacement (£1000+) from Mercedes plus fitting. However, ECUTesting.com can repair this kind of fault (despite Mercedes saying it is not possible) and total repair costs including removal and installation should be around £500 from a reputable indie.

I would suggest looking for a face-lift model with folding mirrors and factory fitted front and rear parking sensors (to take advantage of parking assist a fun and useful parking feature for tight parallel spaces).

Thanks for the info, just wanted to check to see if my mum and dad were doing the right thing as they popped round yesterday while they were out on a test drive in this A class for me to have a look at it.
The car in question is the one in the link above and its a 2012 car with 26k on it and full merc history, I was told by tge dealer selling it the gearbox oil would need changing in a year when the cars 4 years old, does this sound right?.
VW have also had some issues with the early DSG auto box control units going bad but touch wood mum and dads golf has been fine, the DSG 6 speed box oil is also on a 4 year change but acording to our main dealer the new 7 speed DSG gear box oil is sealed for life.

Did all the late cars have parking assist? as one of the car reviews I found said it was an option.

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[John]

I've not read great things about CVT experiences on here in the past. However, this is very much out of kilter as we obviously don't have every owner of a CVT A class posting up their experiences - to put it into perspective.

VW have also had some issues with the early DSG auto box control units going bad but touch wood mum and dads golf has been fine, the DSG 6 speed box oil is also on a 4 year change but acording to our main dealer the new 7 speed DSG gear box oil is sealed for life.

I do love this tactic, and some of the main manufacturers have been here before, and reverted.

Make the gearbox 'sealed for life', save the hassle of changing fluid which invariably needs to be done (saving money when a service pack is purchased or making the service cheaper when paid for), the gearbox will probably last more than the three year warranty period, and then make more money on replacement gearboxes later on.

Life then becomes a handful of years rather than the life of the car.

What a great idea.

 

[wongl]

Parking sensors were an option on the W169, but checking out the car via the link provided would suggest that the car in question does have front and rear parking sensors fitted, so parking assist should be present (but most dealers do not know this!). The give away is the display on the dash - if the KM/h digital display is larger than the digital clock and your car is face-lift model, then chances are you have parking assist. If the two are the same size, then you do not (or at least parking assist has not been coded up for your car).

The CVT gearbox oil must be replaced every 4 years or 40,000 miles. Since the car in question is registered in March 2012 and only has 26,000 miles on the clock, I do not expect the gearbox oil to have been replaced during a routine service yet.

Also, since the introduction of the face-lift models in 2008, Mercedes have done away with the service booklet and replaced with an electronic record. You will need to contact MB to check out the service record of this car unless the selling agent has the printouts of previous services.

The looks lovely in the photos. If your parents end up buying it, I hope they will enjoy it.

 

[martin33100]

I've not read great things about CVT experiences on here in the past. However, this is very much out of kilter as we obviously don't have every owner of a CVT A class posting up their experiences - to put it into perspective.



I do love this tactic, and some of the main manufacturers have been here before, and reverted.

Make the gearbox 'sealed for life', save the hassle of changing fluid which invariably needs to be done (saving money when a service pack is purchased or making the service cheaper when paid for), the gearbox will probably last more than the three year warranty period, and then make more money on replacement gearboxes later on.

Life then becomes a handful of years rather than the life of the car.

What a great idea.

I know what you mean about reading more negative things about something on forums than positives.
Lots of forum posts on the VAG DSG gearbox problems but then the likes of my dad is never going to post about his hassle free DSG gearbox to even up the posts.
Mum and dads current gearbox could pack up tomorrow at 49K or it could do another 200K with no issue.

 

[wongl]

To be totally honest, one of my three W169 suffered the dreaded CVT gearbox problem recently. Disappointingly it was a highish mileage (84,000) face lift model registered on 30th Dec 2009. The fault manifest itself with random transmission fault resulting in the gearbox going into 'limp-mode'. Restarting the engine would clear the fault only for it to return randomly (hot or cold).

A Star diagnostic revealed four error codes being logged - two suggesting intermittent RPM resulting in the gearbox being shut down and put into limp-mode. The good news is that modern Mercedes gearboxes tend to shut down at the slightest abnormal behaviour being detected by the TCU resulting in repairs required to the electronics (typically the speed sensor conductor plates only most model except the W168 and W169 and some of the B-Class sharing the CVT gearbox). The bad news is that Mercedes dealerships are not trained to repair these TCU with the built-in speed sensors.

Not wanting to spend a lot of money on resolving this annoying fault, I opted to get my indie to remove the TCU so that I can send it off to ECUTesting.com for testing and repair. Once done, it was a simple matter of getting my indie to refit the TCU, fitting a new gearbox filter and replenishing with the correct gearbox oil. The car has been driving fine since the repair with the peace of mind the life-time warranty for the repairs done by ECUTesting.com.

 

[martin33100]

Parking sensors were an option on the W169, but checking out the car via the link provided would suggest that the car in question does have front and rear parking sensors fitted, so parking assist should be present (but most dealers do not know this!). The give away is the display on the dash - if the KM/h digital display is larger than the digital clock and your car is face-lift model, then chances are you have parking assist. If the two are the same size, then you do not (or at least parking assist has not been coded up for your car).

The CVT gearbox oil must be replaced every 4 years or 40,000 miles. Since the car in question is registered in March 2012 and only has 26,000 miles on the clock, I do not expect the gearbox oil to have been replaced during a routine service yet.

Also, since the introduction of the face-lift models in 2008, Mercedes have done away with the service booklet and replaced with an electronic record. You will need to contact MB to check out the service record of this car unless the selling agent has the printouts of previous services.

The looks lovely in the photos. If your parents end up buying it, I hope they will enjoy it.

I have just looked at the pictures and the digital display in the middle of the speedo/rev counter does look like it has a larger display at the top so I guess it does have the parking assist on it.
I am guessing this function uses a servo or similar to move the steering wheel?.
I think the dealer selling the car must have looked up the history like you said as he quoted it had been serviced at 8983 and 17802.

If they do change cars I hope they do enjoy it as they will be PX ing a great car, 2007 Golf plus DSG with 49k, and every extra like full leather heated seats, sat nav etc.
They are only looking at smaller cars as my mum doesn't like driving that much now and thinks she would get more confidence driving a smaller car, my dad would be more than happy to buy the new Golf SV but like most new cars its slightly larger than the model it replaced.
My mums perfect car would be if VW offered the new polo in a high roof model as well.

 

[grober]

The reason the VW 7speed DSG is sealed for life is that the twin clutch pack system is "dry" as opposed to the older 6 speed DSG which has twin wet clutches. VW now tend to reserve their 6 speed wet clutch pack DSG boxes for their higher torque models---- which tells you something. Indeed anecdotal evidence would indicate the twin dry clutch 7 speed DSG has experienced lots of premature failures compared to its older 6speed brother.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-shift_gearbox

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ars-worldwide-faulty-gearbox-light-fuses.html

ps there is now a 7speed high torque DSG -- but it has a a twin wet clutch pack!

 

[martin33100]

To be totally honest, one of my three W169 suffered the dreaded CVT gearbox problem recently. Disappointingly it was a highish mileage (84,000) face lift model registered on 30th Dec 2009. The fault manifest itself with random transmission fault resulting in the gearbox going into 'limp-mode'. Restarting the engine would clear the fault only for it to return randomly (hot or cold).

A Star diagnostic revealed four error codes being logged - two suggesting intermittent RPM resulting in the gearbox being shut down and put into limp-mode. The good news is that modern Mercedes gearboxes tend to shut down at the slightest abnormal behaviour being detected by the TCU resulting in repairs required to the electronics (typically the speed sensor conductor plates only most model except the W168 and W169 and some of the B-Class sharing the CVT gearbox). The bad news is that Mercedes dealerships are not trained to repair these TCU with the built-in speed sensors.

Not wanting to spend a lot of money on resolving this annoying fault, I opted to get my indie to remove the TCU so that I can send it off to ECUTesting.com for testing and repair. Once done, it was a simple matter of getting my indie to refit the TCU, fitting a new gearbox filter and replenishing with the correct gearbox oil. The car has been driving fine since the repair with the peace of mind the life-time warranty for the repairs done by ECUTesting.com.

Did Merc ever address this issue on the much later ones?.
I know its a completely different manufacturer but the likes of VW changed the design of the later DSG modules and they where much better.

 

[martin33100]

The reason the VW 7speed DSG is sealed for life is that the twin clutch pack system is "dry" as opposed to the older 6 speed DSG which has twin wet clutches. VW now tend to reserve their 6 speed wet clutch pack DSG boxes for their higher torque models---- which tells you something. Indeed anecdotal evidence would indicate the twin dry clutch 7 speed DSG has experienced lots of premature failures compared to its older 6speed brother.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-shift_gearbox

That makes total sense if its a dry clutch pack that's now used in the 7 speed, I only enquired as my dad was thinking of buying a new Golf SV 1.4 TSI DSG, the service guy in reception was probably just reading off a script and may not have had much technical knowledge about it anyway.

 

[wongl]

I have just looked at the pictures and the digital display in the middle of the speedo/rev counter does look like it has a larger display at the top so I guess it does have the parking assist on it.
I am guessing this function uses a servo or similar to move the steering wheel?.

The power steering on the W169 is electric and not hydraulic - the parking assist uses the electric motor to steer the car into a parking space using the parking sensors. The driver still need to control the accelerator and brakes!

There is a feature (which I haven't tried to enable yet using star) which uses the electric power steering to help the driver to steer in the correct direction during a skid. I believe this feature is officially available on the B-Class but not on the A-Class even though the settings to enable this feature appears to be in Star (under developer mode) for the W169.

 

[martin33100]

The power steering on the W169 is electric and not hydraulic - the parking assist uses the electric motor to steer the car into a parking space using the parking sensors. The driver still need to control the accelerator and brakes!

There is a feature (which I haven't tried to enable yet using star) which uses the electric power steering to help the driver to steer in the correct direction during a skid. I believe this feature is officially available on the B-Class but not on the A-Class even though the settings to enable this feature appears to be in Star (under developer mode) for the W169.

Thanks again for the info.
Dad is still looking at high up golf plus size cars as well, he has booked a test drive tomorrow for my mum in a BMW 2 series active tourier, X1 and an Audi Q3.

Mum drove 3 series BMW's for 20 years before they went to the golf plus.

Is star Mercedes diagnostic software?
As we currently run BMW's and VW vehicles in the family I currently use VAGcom and BMW DIS.

 

[bolide]

My mum and dad currently have a nice mk 5 golf with the DSG box but they are thinking of buying a smaller car

A Class (13 on) Length, 4292 mm. Width, 2022 mm. Height, 1433 mm
Golf Mk 5 Length, 4204 mm. Width, 1759 mm. Height, 1479 mm

The A Class is longer and considerably wider than the Golf, though it might be worth checking if these figures include wing mirrors

If they really want a smaller car I'd look at a Polo or a VW Up! which is a fantastic little car. Or a Ford Fiesta with the 3-cylinder petrol engine

The size of the car is fairly irrelevant - if a car is easy to park, you'll park it anywhere. If it's hard work to park - and lots of small cars are - then the size of the car makes little difference

If your parents are seduced by perceived Mercedes quality, premium brand, etc, the Up! would be a good alternative. If they're not brand-concious a Fiesta is a fantastic little car. I think they're both much better-rounded cars than the A Class and of equal, or better, quality. A modern MB, particularly at the bottom end of the food chain, is not the same as the Mercedes of old

Nick Froome

 

[wongl]

Thanks again for the info.
Is star Mercedes diagnostic software?
As we currently run BMW's and VW vehicles in the family I currently use VAGcom and BMW DIS.

Yes, Star is both software and a hardware multiplexer (with cables).

 

[martin33100]

A Class (13 on) Length, 4292 mm. Width, 2022 mm. Height, 1433 mm
Golf Mk 5 Length, 4204 mm. Width, 1759 mm. Height, 1479 mm

The A Class is longer and considerably wider than the Golf, though it might be worth checking if these figures include wing mirrors

If they really want a smaller car I'd look at a Polo or a VW Up! which is a fantastic little car. Or a Ford Fiesta with the 3-cylinder petrol engine

The size of the car is fairly irrelevant - if a car is easy to park, you'll park it anywhere. If it's hard work to park - and lots of small cars are - then the size of the car makes little difference

If your parents are seduced by Mercedes quality, premium brand, etc, the Up! would be a good alternative. If they're not brand-concious a Fiesta is a fantastic little car. And I think they're both much better-rounded cars than the A Class

Nick Froome

Mum and dad were looking at an old A class (12 reg) due to the new one being very low, there golf is a plus so its taller than a normal golf at 1580 tall, also there golf is 1956 wide so that may be with mirrors included.
While dad was looking at the new Golf SV my mum sat in the new polo but noticed straight away it being 120mm lower than there current golf plus.
I took my mum to look at the Ford B max and that is a slightly longer fiesta with a height of 1604.

 

[martin33100]

Was it the pre-facelift models that had the 7 speed Tip Auto? and only the post-facelift that had the CVT box?

 

[grober]

The BMW 2 series is FWD based on the Mini running gear and chassis.The attraction for me over the A class would be a conventional automatic torque converter gearbox.

 

[John]

I know what you mean about reading more negative things about something on forums than positives.
Lots of forum posts on the VAG DSG gearbox problems but then the likes of my dad is never going to post about his hassle free DSG gearbox to even up the posts.
Mum and dads current gearbox could pack up tomorrow at 49K or it could do another 200K with no issue.

Our experience has been mixed - one Honda Jazz CVT gearbox from new for 8 years - faultless. One Nissan Juke CVT gearbox from new for nearly 3 years, failed needing complete replacement.

My dad's Altea from new, which is a 2007 vintage, has DSG and it has been faultless.

It's a bit of a lottery although you say that about any gearbox!

 

[martin33100]

A Class (13 on) Length, 4292 mm. Width, 2022 mm. Height, 1433 mm
Golf Mk 5 Length, 4204 mm. Width, 1759 mm. Height, 1479 mm

The A Class is longer and considerably wider than the Golf, though it might be worth checking if these figures include wing mirrors

If they really want a smaller car I'd look at a Polo or a VW Up! which is a fantastic little car. Or a Ford Fiesta with the 3-cylinder petrol engine

The size of the car is fairly irrelevant - if a car is easy to park, you'll park it anywhere. If it's hard work to park - and lots of small cars are - then the size of the car makes little difference

If your parents are seduced by perceived Mercedes quality, premium brand, etc, the Up! would be a good alternative. If they're not brand-concious a Fiesta is a fantastic little car. I think they're both much better-rounded cars than the A Class and of equal, or better, quality. A modern MB, particularly at the bottom end of the food chain, is not the same as the Mercedes of old

Nick Froome

Your right about the size of the car being fairly irrelevant if it drives well and you can park it but I had to convince my mum to try other cars.
Mum and dad test drove a few cars today and I think they may actually order a new Audi Q3!!