My Subwoofer has packed up

[GH421]

my w203 sub woofer has packed up. I'll take this as an opportunity to change all speakers in the car.

Does anyone know if it's a shallow sub in the back? It looks like a 10". What are the speaker sizes for the doors? They're the standard MB speakers

 

[verytalldave]

No such thing as a sub-woofer in a car. A sub-woofer is a speaker that creates frequencies below about 40hz. Which is something that no car has.
What you do have is a bass enhancer which boosts the bass around 100hz or so. Most are so poorly designed they end up sounding like mobile juke boxes with the infamous "one-note" bass harmonic.

I take it this woofer is not standard and is something either you or a previous owner has added?
It may of course be that the speaker is protcted by an in-line fuse and all that needs doing is simply a case of fitting a new slow blow fuse of sufficent rating. This is what I would suspect if the speaker was fitted by someone who knew what they were doing. Speakers, particularily those used for bass frequencies (below about 600hz) should always be protected by a suitable fuse. Sometimes even the speaker itself has a fuse fitted on the terminal block.
I would only replace the speakers if they really do need improving. An expensive job if done properly. Which most arent judging by some of the appalling sounds coming from most cars with their windows down.

 

[kwakdonut]

Beg to differ - the 203 saloon generally has an extra 'speaker' mounted under the rear parcel shelf. It is a free-air sub and works very well!! Not sure of the size (probably 8 or 10") and whether it was standard or optional fit or not

 

[verytalldave]

Beg to differ - the 203 saloon generally has an extra 'speaker' mounted under the rear parcel shelf. It is a free-air sub and works very well!! Not sure of the size (probably 8 or 10") and whether it was standard or optional fit or not

I apologise if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure my W203 does not have this extra speaker. I will look tonight when I get home and report back.
Maybe it was optional.
I dont know whether it makes any difference, but my car has COMAND fitted as standard.


.

 

[GH421]

If you open the boot and have a look under the parcel shelf you'll see a hole with a sub sitting there. Just need to know what the depth is? If its a shallow sub. Don't want to take out the parcelshelf because it looks quite tedious to do with the C pillars connected

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Described as a 23cm woofer in my car.

 

[popuptoaster]

the only difference between a sub woofer and a woofer is how low a frequency they are designed to handle, the one i have fitted into my car can reproduce sound down to around 40Hz, some of them can go lower than the human ear can hear though which is about 20Hz i think.

 

[kwakdonut]

Described as a 23cm woofer in my car.

OK, so it's 9"!!!

Corking link too - think that will tell the OP all he needs to know!

 

[GH421]

Top stuff there thanks a lot

another quick Q

When taking out the doorcards should I disconnect the battery just in case the airbag farts?

 

[verytalldave]

the only difference between a sub woofer and a woofer is how low a frequency they are designed to handle, the one i have fitted into my car can reproduce sound down to around 40Hz, some of them can go lower than the human ear can hear though which is about 20Hz i think.

Accurate reproduction of frequencies below about 50hz is extremely difficult and require serious considerations.
To go deeper than the free air fundemental frequency of the speaker requires transmission line loading. Most speakers fitted into cars, despite what is written or claimed, most will not give a worthwhile output at anything below about 40hz.
What you have to remember is that hardly any musical instruments go that low anyway. Harmonics can dip lower, but most electronic music CANNOT go any deeper that the speakers used in the studio. That is the limiting factor.
If you really want to hear REAL stomach churning bass down to below 20HZ, then the ONLY way is to visit a Cathedral that still has a proper air driven organ. And stand near the pipes.

Or go visit a friend who has a LARGE lounge with a pair of IMF RSPM speakers and good quality turntable.

 

[popuptoaster]

Ahh yeah but i use boxed subs with custom ports and large amplifiers to help with the low frequency stuff, the best one we had was a 12" sub in some of that yellow gas pipe with an MDF blank at the other end and a tuned length port, on the sound generator it went low enough to pass out of human hearing range while still rattling everything on the shelves in the workshop and effecting any and all body cavities.

Tis true most instruments dont go really low, but the electronic stuff i listen to has a some pretty low frequency stuff in it, The Prodigys new album really gives the speakers a kicking if its up loud.

I love a pipe organ, i always have a good quality recording of Toccata in Fuge in D minor in the car, that gets things rattling and always makes me smile, i love that tune.

My stuff is reasonable quality without being stupidly priced or requiring me to fill the car up with dynamat to get the last bit of quality out of it, and i bet it was still half the price of an OEM upgraded stereo system.

 

[verytalldave]

Described as a 23cm woofer in my car.

Just had a peep in the boot - and my W203 doesn't have a rear parcel shelf woofer. Neither does it have the centre dash front speaker.
I am sorry to report all mine has are the 4 door speakers and the two high level front door tweeters.

I feel a bit cheated now.................although it still sounds pretty OK.

 

[verytalldave]

.............Tis true most instruments dont go really low, but the electronic stuff i listen to has a some pretty low frequency stuff in it, The Prodigys new album really gives the speakers a kicking if its up loud. .............

If you can get hold of a copy.........
Try this......
The first 20 or so seconds of the track "Salsoul 3001". Its the B side of this record..........
http://www.discomusic.com/records-more/1777_0_2_0_C/
You wont regret it.
However, dont blame me if your speakers cant handle it and destroy themselves trying (I kid you not).

 

[219]

Accurate reproduction of frequencies below about 50hz is extremely difficult and require serious considerations.
To go deeper than the free air fundemental frequency of the speaker requires transmission line loading. Most speakers fitted into cars, despite what is written or claimed, most will not give a worthwhile output at anything below about 40hz.
What you have to remember is that hardly any musical instruments go that low anyway. Harmonics can dip lower, but most electronic music CANNOT go any deeper that the speakers used in the studio. That is the limiting factor.
If you really want to hear REAL stomach churning bass down to below 20HZ, then the ONLY way is to visit a Cathedral that still has a proper air driven organ. And stand near the pipes.

Or go visit a friend who has a LARGE lounge with a pair of IMF RSPM speakers and good quality turntable.

I would have to concur .

I used to run a hi-fi shop back in the '70s and '80s , besides which I used to design and construct my own speakers , with a particular liking for TL designs and , conversely , Quad Electrostatics ( not quite such polar opposites as some people might imagine as a well designed TL can sound almost as neutral and 'clean' as an ESL ) .

Despite having built and owned some 'monster' TL's with very large cabinets and long , untapered lines with 4x B139's apiece which went well below audibility , these days I live with a set of 'modest' TLS 80s which work very well in my 26' x 15' living room in my 180 yr old cottage with 3' thick stone walls ( but , alas , a suspended wooden floor ) .

I use the TLS 80's for 2 channel listening , but also have a pair of IMF Super Compacts at the rear and built my own centre speaker using 4x B110s and the usual Celestion HF1300 and Coles 4001 combo to match the other speakers .

Here are a few pictures

Firstly , what have to be regarded as ' a fine pair ' !

And an individual view , plus some of my other toys

Whilst I would have to agree that car audio is not 'proper' Hi-Fi , it is still possible to get quite pleasant reproduction . I have used B139's in a number of my cars with some success : I have had a single one mounted in the parcel shelf of both my W201's and am currently sorting out the system in my W126 with two B139's mounted in a special baffle I made up to replace the standard parcel shelf .

Here is a B139 lined up over the aperture for the 1st aid kit in a 190 : it is a perfect match size-wise

In each case I have always made up a substantial baffle from MDF to replace the original shelf and use the boot as an 'infinite baffle' enclosure . The original parcel shelf is retained and can always be put back if the car is sold on .

Here is the job part done in my 190E 2.6

And a boot-full of electronics in the 190

Since the W126 is a larger car and has twin apertures in the parcel shelf , I decided to go for two B139's for this instalation . I also used a double thickness baffle ( two sheets of 18mm MDF screwed and glued together for rigidity )

The B139's are invisible from above , being hidden under the trim , but can be seen from inside the boot

The difficulty with trying to reproduce very low frequencies in a car is the lack of space to accomodate the very long wavelengths involved : I can actually hear the change in LF extension when I open the sunroof !

I'm pretty happy that I have pleasant LF reproduction and just need to sort out the rest of the audio spectrum - currently using some cheap and cheerful JBL units - I'd like to get my hands on some Kef Kar units or the equivalent B&W units made in the 1980s , but will probably end up experimenting with hi-fi drive units and building my own crossovers .

The 139's crossover electronically with the rest of the system via the Sony XDP-U50D DSP unit seen in the bottom left corner of the last picture .

 

[popuptoaster]

my old Clarion set up looked a lot like that in the boot as the screen took up the whole headunits internals (it was old but sounded brilliant) so the TV gubbins was in the boot along with the dsp and the the minidisc/cd changers and amps, i've dropped a lot of the stuff now as my new headunit will accept SD cards and USB sticks and much as i like to complain about MP3's nor being "pure" its pretty hard to tell the difference and makes it much easier to chop and change what i'm listening to.

i've got an MDF shelf in my coupe, but i need to pull it out and make room in the shelf to mount the speakers under it and cover it to match my interior, im also looking for someowhere in the front to hide tweeters as i have them in pods on the dash at the moment and i dont like them on show.

I use a boxed sub in the boot to make my like easier as i do need to pull it out occasionally to fill the car up with stuff.


cant find any decent pics of my old set up, it came out of a Clarion demonstrator, the first TV unit avaialable here i was told, state of the art back in the day but looks old and chunky these days, suited my XR4i down to the ground and sounded brilliant depsite being ten years old. Wish i'd never sold it on now as i reckon its one of those items that will be a collectable one day.

 

[219]

Yes , I remember back when I ran W114/W115 models ( they were still current then ) I often thought of mounting speakers in the parcel shelves - unfortunately there was no space under the cosmetic shelf and I didn't wish to cut into the metal shelf underneath - so it was surface mount 'pod' speakers back then .

I did manage to mount 160mm units into the trim pieces above the two footwells and firing downwards ( there was a lot of spare spcae back then ) .

I still have the Pioneer KP 4000A radio/cassette I bought circa 1976 ( it is up in the loft but still worked last time I tried it ) which was pretty expensive back then although very basic now with a whopping 3W/ch (probably peak) .

About 15 or 20 years ago , Sony introduced the XR-C900 head unit which was just about the best car unit made , for sound quality , and is still highly regarded .

It was a pre-out only unit with Dolby B-C cassette deck , FM diversity tuner , and control for the Sony DSP unit as well as CD/MD changers - something like £700 just for the head unit IIRC .

I was down on the waiting list for one of the first , still have it , along with a couple of other ones bought along the way , and a CDX-910 which was the CD head unit based on the same design , but with a few features omitted as the CD mechanism took up more space than the cassette deck ( type IV cassettes work pretty well in it , if only you could get blank tapes these days ) . All of these units still work perfectly . Only one of my two Sony CDX-91 changers has developed a fault , currently have a CDX 805 standing in for it .

Here's a shot of an XR-C 900 in one of the 190's

When I eventually get my Ponton and Fintail back on the road , I'll leave the period radios in the dash and do a 'stealth' installation using my two 'spare' head units in the boot with the removable face plate remotely fitted above a sun visor or somewhere similar ( not hard to do ) .