National Debt

Benzowner

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I would prefer this not get political for obvious reasons.

With Greece on the verge of bankruptcy, Ireland and Portugal being hinted as also possible runners for the same honour, I read this morning that the UK could be bust by 2060. The blame for this is an ageing population putting a financial burden on the country, mostly public employees pensions apparently.....mmm.

Now, the question, to whom do these countries owe the money? I am lead to beleive the IMF, but who owns them? Other countries GB put up guarantees for Ireland and Greece and we maybe even put in some money as well. Are we all in debt to a load of bankers?:D

Who is getting rich from all this?
 

Charles Morgan

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Pension liabilities are debt to the retirees. If paid from general taxation - you and me owe the money, or rather, our children and grandchildren.

Most government debt is held by pension funds and insurers - you and me.

Banks owe their money to depositors. You and me.

The answer is - you and me mostly.
 
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Benzowner

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Pension liabilities are debt to the retirees. If paid from general taxation - you and me owe the money.

Most government debt is held by pension funds and insurers - you and me.

Banks owe their money to depositors. You and me.

The answer is - you and me mostly.

But you and me ain't getting rich from this..........well I'm not, must be you and all the others then:D
 

Charles Morgan

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No one gets rich from government over-indebtedness. It impoverishes the next generation who have to pay it off.

If you have an unfunded pension - you are rich, you will be living off the labour of others.
 
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No one gets rich from government over-indebtedness. It impoverishes the next generation who have to pay it off.

If you have an unfunded pension - you are rich, you will be living off the labour of others.

This is my question, to whom do we pay it off? Firstly the government, I can understand, but who do the government pay off the debt to? This £5 billion here and £1 trillion there, who is that owed to?
 

Charles Morgan

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Mostly pension funds, banks and insurance companies. Who owe the money to depositors, policy holders and pensioners.

You and me in other words.
 

martin_a

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No one gets rich from government over-indebtedness. It impoverishes the next generation who have to pay it off.

If you have an unfunded pension - you are rich, you will be living off the labour of others.


The issue is the welfare state as was, just 'began' it wasn't introduced with those working paying forthemselves, they immediately had to support those who had never paid in so we've always been playing catch up.

not that I am saying the government should encourage people to die off but it is partly the reason I'm getting fed up of being told what to eat and drink.

By now I am sure we all know the dangers of everything and are capable of making a rational decision whether or not to have another pint or have a lardy burger or put some salt on our chips. If I lose a couple of weeks dribbling to myself in a hospital bed I think I could cope with that!

m.
 

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Smoking is a selfless, patriotic act - discuss.
 

finisterre

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I read this morning that the UK could be bust by 2060. The blame for this is an ageing population putting a financial burden on the country, mostly public employees pensions apparently.....mmm.

x
It sounds unlikely. Why would we allow ourselves to go bankrupt? Surely we would change the course we were taking.

These scare stories always pop up when there are pension negotiations. The Hutton Report is generally accepted as balanced and informed. The report is quite clear that the pensions currently paid for can be afforded but we have to keep our eye on the ball, probably changing some of the terms and conditions to reduce the long term costs.

Independent Public Service Pensions Commission - HM Treasury
X
 
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I know this may sound a bit too philosophical for this time of a morning, but the world won't stop simply because we can't get our sums correct.

Noddy Holder said a piece on all this a couple of years ago on Have I Got News For You, "where has all this money gone to?" the reply was "that's the problem it never existed in the first place" to which Noddy said " well theres no problem then". (better in a brummy accent)
 

finisterre

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Yes smoking is good, their taxes more than offset their costs, smokers subsidise the less smelly.

Say thank you.
 

finisterre

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On a more basic level.

Don't we buy oil and borrow the money back to buy more oil?
 

grober

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I would prefer this not get political for obvious reasons.

With Greece on the verge of bankruptcy, Ireland and Portugal being hinted as also possible runners for the same honour, I read this morning that the UK could be bust by 2060. The blame for this is an ageing population putting a financial burden on the country, mostly public employees pensions apparently.....mmm.

Now, the question, to whom do these countries owe the money? I am lead to beleive the IMF, but who owns them? Other countries GB put up guarantees for Ireland and Greece and we maybe even put in some money as well. Are we all in debt to a load of bankers?:D

Who is getting rich from all this?



One reason the Greek economy is in trouble is their taxation system is in chaos. gulfnews : Plugging tax leaks in Greece
 

artyman

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In one sense it is all illusory. Basic needs are food drink and shelter, the creation of food is a natural process, drink is basically rain, perhaps flavoured by plants of some description, shelter by some physical effort arranging trees mud rocks etc. The remainder is just a creation of man. Someone invented a car then the advertising industry convinced us all that we needed them :D
 

blondebier

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Good thread. I hope it stays like this and doesn't get political.

Interesting topic.

It is fairly depressing when you start to think how on earth it will be resolved.

All the austerity measures currently in place are just going to tackle the deficit. The average Joe Bloggs probably thinks that after 5 years all our debt will be paid off and we can all start spending like there's no tomorrow. :doh:

Sadly our national debt is a very big number and it just keeps getting bigger and BIGGER and BIGGER ...
 

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Bankruptcy isn't owing billions or trillions or what ever currency it is the inability to fund the interest rates. Of course the major country without a deficit is China - so expect China to buy bonds, fund businesses in other countries to shore up their economies or where else can they sell their goods.
 

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