National Power Failure

[190]

I hope the power failure yesterday didn't impact on too many of you but I feel the need to comment on what we were fed by the news media. They are more interested in creating a sensation than reporting the facts. From the media coverage you would believe it's all National Grids fault when all we know at this stage is that two power stations were not able to maintain frequency control and disconnected from the grid. The grid system then performed as designed by automatically shedding load which it must do to prevent a complete collapse of the whole system. They shed load by disconnecting parts of the grid.

This is about frequency control. The grid aims to maintain a frequency of 50Hz. When demand exceed supply the frequency drops slightly. As I type this it's at 49.94Hz. When demand is less than supply it will rise above 50Hz. Typically it's very close to 50 but can vary between 49 and 51. Much below 49 Hz will cause problems and that's what will have happened yesterday triggering automatic disconnections.

The link below will show you the real time grid frequency which has risen to 50.1 while I've been typing. You will need to enable flash player temporarily to see this frequency meter.


Dynamic Demand

 

[grober]

THe first to trip out was Little Barford Power Station which is driven by 2 General Electric Frame 9F gas turbines Little Barford Power Station - Wikipedia. In common with a lot of our power generation infrastructure its owned by a foreign multinational. REW
Rheinisch-Westfälisches Elektrizitätswerk AG is a German electric utilities company based in Essen, North Rhine-Westphalia. RWE is the second largest electricity producer in Germany, and currently embroiled in the Hambach Forest controversy involving brown coal strip mining. RWE - Wikipedia
The second disconnect was by part or all of the Hornsea Offshore Wind Farm. Its owned by the Danish multinational ORSTED
Ørsted (company) - Wikipedia Quaintly formerly known as "DONG" which is presumably the sound of the warnings going off in the control room when they have to throw the big switch [ironically they may have had to switch off because of high winds ]

 

[Dippo]

I was glad to see the phrase "lessons have been learnt" being used. It's used so often, I'm surprised there's anything left in the UK that could possibly go wrong.

 

[Deletedmember130310]

Whatever you do, don’t mention cyberattacks...

 

[grober]

National Grid 'had three blackout near-misses in three months'

These recent events might imply a rethink of power grid emergency strategy in the light of newer forms of power generation such as renewables and gas turbines. It may mean having greater base load generation reserves idling as a backup for these technologies which of course raises emissions and costs. The current strategy was designed round an era of giant steam turbines powered by fossil fuels which had the benefit of huge inertial energy to cope with fluctuation in demand even in the act of shutting down they could still put out power. In other words the system had greater hysteresis.
A cynic of course might say this is the power generators negotiated response to recent caps on energy prices - I couldn't possibly comment other than to say that quite often the source of what on the surface appear a technical problem is often down to financal issues one way or another.

 

[RonFleet]

Whatever you do, don’t mention cyberattacks...

It's the tardigrades that recently crash landed on the moon in the Israeli Beresheet Lander...they've rapidly evolved and are now striking back .

 

[Deleted member 37751]

FFR is the future...

 

[flying haggis]

i loved the media coverage that stated people were "plunged into darkness" in the afternoon. Really!!!!!

 

[m80]

It's the tardigrades that recently crash landed on the moon in the Israeli Beresheet Lander.

I just saw that as the first of the Israeli Clangers.

 

[219]

I just saw that as the first of the Israeli Clangers.

Didn’t The Clangers live on the moon ?

 

[Dryce]

These recent events might imply a rethink of power grid emergency strategy in the light of newer forms of power generation such as renewables and gas turbines. It may mean having greater base load generation reserves idling as a backup for these technologies which of course raises emissions and costs.

ISTR this coming up a few years ago in these forums.

As renewables go up you have to increase the amount of non-renewable as a contingency. It's not about emergency - it's about portfolio management. Over the last three decades we have seen the traditional power stations gradually retired with no major replacements apart from Hinckley Point. This problem has been known about but has tended to be swept under the carpet as an inconvenient truth.

Meanwhile our population has been rising and per-capita consumption will see a step change if there is a significant switch to plug-in EVs.

I think as a nation we have become incredibly complacent over the last generation when it comes to national, energy, and food security.

We've been living off the energy infrastructure investments made by our parents' (for some of us grandparents') generation back in the 70s and up to the mid to late 80s which is being retired. We used to have significant contingency - now we have almost none.

 

[Bellow]

i loved the media coverage that stated people were "plunged into darkness" in the afternoon. Really!!!!!

In windowless offices - probably.

 

[219]

ISTR this coming up a few years ago in these forums.

As renewables go up you have to increase the amount of non-renewable as a contingency. It's not about emergency - it's about portfolio management. Over the last three decades we have seen the traditional power stations gradually retired with no major replacements apart from Hinckley Point. This problem has been known about but has tended to be swept under the carpet as an inconvenient truth.

Meanwhile our population has been rising and per-capita consumption will see a step change if there is a significant switch to plug-in EVs.

I think as a nation we have become incredibly complacent over the last generation when it comes to national, energy, and food security.

We've been living off the energy infrastructure investments made by our parents' (for some of us grandparents') generation back in the 70s and up to the mid to late 80s which is being retired. We used to have significant contingency - now we have almost none.

Some renewables are pretty reliable : hydro electric for example. With proper management a hydro electric scheme can be pretty reliable and predictable.

 

[219]

In windowless offices - probably.

My office is windowless : I’ve used Apple computers since the Apple II

And I have a UPS , and a generator , with about 10 hours , worth of fuel , which I can replenish before it runs out ( petrol station 2 miles up the road , and I can store more if problems look likely) .

 

[Bellow]

My office is windowless : I’ve used Apple computers since the Apple II

And I have a UPS , and a generator .

Is that you or a wasp posting?

 

[m80]

Didn’t The Clangers live on the moon ?

and will again as the tardigrades evolve.

 

[Dryce]

Some renewables are pretty reliable : hydro electric for example. With proper management a hydro electric scheme can be pretty reliable and predictable.

Non pump-storage Hydro is pretty small in the UK compared with other sources.

 

[Dryce]

My office is windowless : I’ve used Apple computers since the Apple II
( petrol station 2 miles up the road , and I can store more if problems look likely) .

Petrol station likely requires power for pumps.

How about a wind turbine and a solar panel array?

 

[moonloops]

FFR is the future...

Is that another new Jaguar?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Is that another new Jaguar?

F-Pace FRRRRR

No, it means “Fast Frequency Response” - it’s ultimate aim is to convert every home into a *battery powered* power station and, due to the current massive investment that’s going into grid balancing and the like, it’ll be here sooner rather than later.