National Pride and Patriotism?

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Noodle-Pulp

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I'm thinking about buying a shed load of union jack merchandise and setting up stall in Stratford.. or nearby.. in 2012.

My worry is that for the majority of the UK - is this a Nationalistic symbol.. with it's awkward connotations? Or will we all regain our pride in our country?

It feels like due to the PC police we Britons are subjugated into not expressing our patriotism - sure, it's ok if you're English, Scottish or Irish.. but doesn't the Union Flag symbolise something else much more sinister these days.. or am I just paranoid?


(Oh and admins.. if you want, you can remove this if you think it's political/abusive/religious or any other reason.. but know that this is a genuine question with no hidden agenda.)
 
Only because we let the far right claim it as their own. If more people displayed the Union Jack it would dilute it's far right image. As far as sport goes i don't think it really has any political sway.
 
it was my understanding that the BNP & other far right groups have laid a sort of claim to the Cross of St. George, the England flag, not the Union Jack.
 
Did you know, there are local councils around this country, that will not allow you to display the Union Standard on your House/Car/Work building. I find this atrocious and discriminatory in the extreme. The same applies to the Flag of St George. What is this country coming to.!!!!
edit; "What is this country coming to.!!!" should read, Why have we let successive governments, strip us of our National Pride.!!!!!!. Out with the lot of them, bring on the Revolution.:devil:!!!!!!http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...mage_result&resnum=2&ct=image&ved=0CBMQ9QEwAQ
 
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CAN WE ALL PLEASE STOP USING THE TERM 'UNION JACK'!!!!

It is the Union FLAG. It is only the Union JACK when flown on a British ship, generally of the Royal Navy!

And for my 2p worth, Political Correctness can go shove it's head up it's ar$e!!!
 
CAN WE ALL PLEASE STOP USING THE TERM 'UNION JACK'!!!!

It is the Union FLAG. It is only the Union JACK when flown on a British ship, generally of the Royal Navy!

And for my 2p worth, Political Correctness can go shove it's head up it's ar$e!!!

Is it? Here is one explanation that differs slightly.
The following is quoted from the article on the flag's name at the website of the Flag Institute, by Cdr Bruce Nicolls OBE RN (Ret'd):

The first use of the name 'Union' appears in 1625. There are various theories as [to] how it became known as the 'Union Jack', but most of the evidence points to the name being derived from the use of the word 'jack' as a diminutive. This word was in use before 1600 to describe a small flag flown from the small mast mounted on the bowsprit, and by 1627 it appears that a small version of the Union flag was commonly flown in this position. For some years it was called just 'the Jack', or 'Jack flag', or 'the King's Jack', but by 1674, while formally referred to as 'His Majesty's Jack', it was commonly called the Union Jack, and this was officially acknowledged.
In the 18th century the small mast on the bowsprit was replaced by staysails on the stays between the bowsprit and the foremast. By this time the Ensign had become the principal naval distinguishing flag, so it became the practice to fly the Union Jack only in harbour, on a specially rigged staff in the bows of the ships, the jackstaff. It should thus be noted that the jack flag had existed for over a hundred and fifty years before the jack staff came into being, and its name was related to its size rather than to the position in which it was flown.

It is often stated that the Union Flag should only be described as the Union Jack when flown in the bows of a warship, but this is a relatively recent idea. From early in its life the Admiralty itself frequently referred to the flag as the Union Jack, whatever its use, and in 1902 an Admiralty Circular announced that Their Lordships had decided that either name could be used officially. Such use was given parliamentary approval in 1908 when it was stated that "the Union Jack should be regarded as the National flag".

Graham Bartram, 29 May 1999
 
More years ago than I are to remember, we were deployed to the Stratford area, a very large park, Victoria ? (the name escapes). We were lucky as we stayed on "stand by" for most of the day. This would be in the late 70s or early 80s.

Whilst on standby in quite a nice residential area. I noticed a family coming out of a house, all looking quite happy. They shouted across to us "did we know if every thing was O.K. as they had some children with them. They were a large family. We said words to the effect that things were O.K. as far as we new & shouted over to them to have fun, they laughed & cheered back & went on their way.

What I noticed & it has stuck with me to this day, was the word painted across the large Union Flag they were carrying " WHITE, BROWN, OR BLACK, IT'S OUR UNION JACK !

I thought that was great. It was with dismay that we saw this family coming home bedraggled & looking very much the worse for wear.

We asked them what had happened & where was their Flag. They said, in not so many words, that they were acted by the then "Anti Nazi League & Socialist Worker's Party supporters because of the Flag which their attackers assumed that they were National Front supporters.

What a terrible shame.

Subsequently, however, whilst helping to Police another event, we were stationed in Trafalgar Square, awaiting the arrival or the driving past of the Queen & several members of her family. It was noticed that a Black Man had climbed a scaffold pole so he could see over the crowd. He had been pointed out by the crowed & Officers approached to try & get him down.

He shouted at the Officers & the crowd, that he would not come down until after the "drive by" because, as he shouted out. "She's my Queen to you know" with that loud cheers from the crowd, officers dispersed to their posts with one left behind to keep a casual watch on the chap.

You can please some of the people some of the time..etc. etc
 
Is it? Here is one explanation that differs slightly.
The following is quoted from the article on the flag's name at the website of the Flag Institute, by Cdr Bruce Nicolls OBE RN (Ret'd):

The first use of the name 'Union' appears in 1625. There are various theories as [to] how it became known as the 'Union Jack', but most of the evidence points to the name being derived from the use of the word 'jack' as a diminutive. This word was in use before 1600 to describe a small flag flown from the small mast mounted on the bowsprit, and by 1627 it appears that a small version of the Union flag was commonly flown in this position. For some years it was called just 'the Jack', or 'Jack flag', or 'the King's Jack', but by 1674, while formally referred to as 'His Majesty's Jack', it was commonly called the Union Jack, and this was officially acknowledged.
In the 18th century the small mast on the bowsprit was replaced by staysails on the stays between the bowsprit and the foremast. By this time the Ensign had become the principal naval distinguishing flag, so it became the practice to fly the Union Jack only in harbour, on a specially rigged staff in the bows of the ships, the jackstaff. It should thus be noted that the jack flag had existed for over a hundred and fifty years before the jack staff came into being, and its name was related to its size rather than to the position in which it was flown.

It is often stated that the Union Flag should only be described as the Union Jack when flown in the bows of a warship, but this is a relatively recent idea. From early in its life the Admiralty itself frequently referred to the flag as the Union Jack, whatever its use, and in 1902 an Admiralty Circular announced that Their Lordships had decided that either name could be used officially. Such use was given parliamentary approval in 1908 when it was stated that "the Union Jack should be regarded as the National flag".

Graham Bartram, 29 May 1999

I can see the point of this but our flag is the flag of the Union of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and the term' jack' as stated, is a Naval term! And so the flag is simply the 'Union Flag'.

As a member of the junior Service, I take offence to the nautical terminology lol and insist that it is called the Union Flag!!! :D
 
To answer the original question I think you will do just fine selling the merchandise. When I was attending overseas sporting events for work I was always surprised at the number of foreign nationals wearing T shirts etc with the UK flag on it - this seemed particularly prevelant amongst Far East Asians (Japanese, Koreans, Chinese)

They had no idea about the National Front and BNP - its just a cool looking logo that everyone recognises.
 
The RAF missed out big time with copyrighting/trade marking the 'roundel' (the red/white/blue circle for those who don't know) as this became very popular with Ben Sherman/Lambretta clothing and of course, back a few years with the MOD's and their scooters!

Legally, can't even use it on their own range of clothing!!
 
Well, woteva - just so long as you limeys get into yer national dress on Friday an' treat yerselves to a pint of whelks!

485305230_4ba6048b4b.jpg


:D
 
kwak,

Would you allow you have a tendency to be a bit of a pennant pedant?
 
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I can see the point of this but our flag is the flag of the Union of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and the term' jack' as stated, is a Naval term! And so the flag is simply the 'Union Flag'.

As a member of the junior Service, I take offence to the nautical terminology lol and insist that it is called the Union Flag!!! :D

You have every right to refer to it as the Union Flag, but no right to insist that anyone else does. Sorry.
 
I'm thinking about buying a shed load of union jack merchandise and setting up stall in Stratford.. or nearby.. in 2012.

Forget the connotations... you'll be competing with thousands of chancers also promoting 'national pride and patriotism' with exactly the same tat made in... China. Sigh. :(
 
It was intended as a joke, a play on words.
pen·nant
pen·nant (p
ebreve.gif
n
prime.gif
schwa.gif
nt) n.
1. Nautical A long, tapering, usually triangular flag, used on ships for signaling or identification.
2. A flag or an emblem similar in shape to a ship's pennant.


pedant n. person making display of his or her learning; learned person paying excessive attention to details; precision. pedantic, a. pedanticism, pedantry, n.
 
To answer the original question I think you will do just fine selling the merchandise. When I was attending overseas sporting events for work I was always surprised at the number of foreign nationals wearing T shirts etc with the UK flag on it - this seemed particularly prevelant amongst Far East Asians (Japanese, Koreans, Chinese)

They had no idea about the National Front and BNP - its just a cool looking logo that everyone recognises.

I get a weird shiver when I see Pink, Green or Yellow versions in Hong Kong though :doh:
 
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Thanks to all who replied - reassuring that my thoughts are not alone!
 

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