Networking

[Ade B]

My current IT infrastructure is creaking horribly..

Could any IT peeps give me a ballpark budget cost for setting up a 5 pc file sharing network with back up and a couple of laptops.

Thoughts much appreciated.

TIA

Ade

 

[A-AvantGarde]

My current IT infrastructure is creaking horribly..

Could any IT peeps give me a ballpark budget cost for setting up a 5 pc file sharing network with back up and a couple of laptops.

Thoughts much appreciated.

TIA

Ade

Can you provide a little bit more information, may improve the quality of the responses...

Do you have an idea on how much storage space you need?
Do you need pricing on the PC's & laptops too (or do you have them already)
How about printing requirements?

 

[A210AMG]

As above more info needed,

Size of storage,
What software do you require.
Have you already got printers, laptops?
I guess you want all PC's laptops printing over the network
Could you upgrade what you have? or is it really bad..what is it...
Thin Clients could be an option?

 

[A-AvantGarde]

Also is remote access a requirement?

 

[Ade B]

Cheers, not really thought this through in any detail but..

Storage - we are not particulary data heavy, all of our current projects occupy 60GB of space, email about another 15GB and archive (not yet burnt to CDROM) about 22GB

We have most of the software we need and would need to look at obtaining a couple of additional licenses for our CAD software but I have allowed for that already.

We have an OK HP printer, a scanner and an A1 HP plotter which is ok for our needs. Can't see an immediate requirement for additional peripherals at the mo.

PC wise we've 3 OK PCs and an ancient one which could do with replacement (although there is nothing wrong with it) we'd look to add one new one and possibly have another as a dedicated server.

Laptops that print would be helpful - currently have 1 which is roaming, shortly to be 2, one of which could replace the proposed new workstation mentioned above. Happy to go with a wireless solution - speed is not massively important.

We're using Thunderbird to deal with our emails which I'm reasonably happy with..

We don't need state of the art, we do need individual email accounts that back up to a central point where I can monitor what is going on, a means of managing our files so that stuff doesn't get overwritten/duplicated accidentally and the ability to print without moving computer would be great.. oh and think lo-fi, we're a small architects practice not NASA.

Remote access currently being admirably handled by the free version of logmein.

Hope that makes things clearer.

Thanks

Ade

 

[davidjpowell]

I use a server with MS Small Business Server. It is essentially MS Server software with MS Exchange chucked on top, and meant to be fairly hassle free to maintain.

The only thing that I find are the extra's like virus checkers are quite expensive and I have to buy the expensive business version of software. But the integration between server and workstation is good. I have a central printing soloution, which I can use remotely, and the company files set up to sync with my laptop so that I can get at them easily when on the road.

I think it really needs a professional to maintain it, although at the moment I get by.

Something to consider perhaps?

 

[markmifsud]

As david says, the more you want, the more your going to have to think of support costs, its a small workgroup so keep it simple and keep your costs down. Consider using Linux installed on a raid5 array (sata). With Linux you have Server shares, Email, you can even have windows user accounting. If you go with windows server for ease of supporting, stee clear of exchange, its an over kill for 5 users.

Windows Backup in the first place can be carried out by volume shadow copy which allows you to take snapshots in time of the server with all file changes registered to allow for rollback. Use windows backup to do a daily backup to tape and if possible get it taken off site as often as is possible.

AV, not sure what the costs are for a small workgroup as I have enterprise licensing, but try and get a server client system, so that you have control of the client AV settings and updates.

 

[Tan]

Do you have structured network cabling in place, or do you need this installing also.

Have you considered a hosted server solution?

Ade my company is based at London Bridge, so not a million miles away, so if you want I would be happy to pop down give you a free no obligation quote.

 

[markmifsud]

with such a small setup, I would be inclined to go wireless, this wll allow you to be able to move your PC equipment anywhere in the office, and if you tunnel a ipsec vpn between the wireless networks it can be very secure.

 

[timskemp]

Just to counter Mark, I would recommend against going wireless unless the cost of cabling is prohibitive. Reliability wise nothing beats a cable. I'd say that most of the issues I have with networking revolve around attempting to connect two things together that would just work if they had a cable between them.

 

[davidjpowell]

And probably more so if you are dealing with the large files that CAD packages can generate.

 

[markmifsud]

I understand the issues of large files over a wireless network, but as the current setup is using just 66gb it doesnt sound like they are chucking large files around all day long.

of course structured cabling would be good, but for 5 users?

 

[Spinal]

I played with ArchiCAD a while back, and my tiny sketches generated 400MB files...

Depending on the setup, if you are writing that back on every (auto)save it could be disastrously slow...

I'm a firm believer in the "cable if you can" school of thought... Consider a 54mbps basestation, ignoring any overheads, shared over 5 laptops would barely give 11mbps to each laptop... running a non-incremental backup on that would be painful....

M.

 

[ceejay]

Small Business Server would be my recommendation, with wired connections wherever practical. With decent hardware, this will give you a solid, reliable, platform to run your business on.

Cost wise, you should probably be looking at around £5k as a very ballpark figure (+/-50%) for a fully installed, warrented and documented, turnkey system.

Also happy to come and talk if you want a quote!

 

[markmifsud]

you wouldnt run any sort of backup over a wireless link, I would hope.

just giving options for the OP. My own personal choice would be as I already said, Linux to cover the whole lot, cost = hardware only

note the OP comments

"Happy to go with a wireless solution - speed is not massively important."

 

[Spinal]

you wouldnt run any sort of backup over a wireless link, I would hope.

So you would rely on users bringing their laptops once a day to a wired location for a backup?

just giving options for the OP. My own personal choice would be as I already said, Linux to cover the whole lot, cost = hardware only

I disagree. cost for a linux setup would be:
cost = hardware + training + maintenance + software
training being MASSIVE as most CAD suites are quite complex, so getting a team to swap suite, operating system and the whole lot would be no trivial task. If you meant linux only for the backend, then that's a different matter - but you still would need to train whoever maintains the system.

note the OP comments
"Happy to go with a wireless solution - speed is not massively important."

No offence to the OP, but I've found that clients rarely know what they really want; and if they do, they rarely know how to express it. Many things are assumed or implied.

E.g. When I joined my company, they recently had a wireless setup installed, with the intention of running Apple's "mobile" accounts and giving all users laptops so it would be a totally mobile system. Only after the whole thing was bought, paid for and installed did someone say "oh, but we also want "unlimited" storage - as we had before with networked accounts" (true story)...

We have people sync'ing their accounts every 30 minutes - I've seen the process take an hour or so, just because they renamed a folder and the manager wants to re-upload everything to the server. (not a clean process, but it's Apples default system)

It may be just because of the infrastructure I've inherited (which is fundamentally flawed in more ways than one); but I've been left with a bad taste over wireless...

Not trying to bash what you said - just chipping in my experiences... and it's all based on 'G' and not 'N' wireless, so that may help too...

M.

 

[WLeg]

cost = hardware only

Only if they currently employ someone who is good with Open Source / Linux stuff......whilst the inital purchase price of a Windows SBS system might be higher, for most, it is an easier system to support and manage on a day-to-day basis, which can give you a lower cost over a 3 year period......

 

[columb]

Would you be interested doing this by yourself? It's easy (with expert advice) and will give you better understanding of your network. That equals to better problem understanding in the future AND quicker resolutions.

I could help you setting up network, server and backups - that's my job. Most stuff can be done remotely but if on-site visit is required, then I would appreciate cost of fuel + something to eat

I would prefer and recommend Linux on server but as I'm MCSE I would set up windows for you as good as Linux.

I've done simillar installations many times in the past.

And I'm really sorry to offer free services where money can be made BUT this forum was so helpful to me that I really do want to contribute best as I can!

If you would really like the job then small "donation" would not hurt

Cheers
Chris

 

[markmifsud]

So you would rely on users bringing their laptops once a day to a wired location for a backup?

Ah, I see what your getting at. Where I work, its policy that nothing is stored on a local PC that does not already exist on the server. We have too many seats and complications to worry about locally stored files.

Yes, Linux does need a bit more training that windows, but the reliability of Linux can not be bettered by a windows box, no matter how well you install the server. Most windows updates require a reboot, rarely do any of my linux servers need a restart, most have uptimes of around 1 year.

Costs for windows does get silly, I currently pay MS £9k a year for my software assurance licence (servers and clients). and £0 for my Linux based servers

I am not a windows basher btw, I do have 20 windows servers and only 6 Linux and 1 Sco Unix.

 

[Spinal]

Ah, I see what your getting at. Where I work, its policy that nothing is stored on a local PC that does not already exist on the server. We have too many seats and complications to worry about locally stored files.

Yes, Linux does need a bit more training that windows, but the reliability of Linux can not be bettered by a windows box, no matter how well you install the server. Most windows updates require a reboot, rarely do any of my linux servers need a restart, most have uptimes of around 1 year.

Costs for windows does get silly, I currently pay MS £9k a year for my software assurance licence (servers and clients). and £0 for my Linux based servers

I am not a windows basher btw, I do have 20 windows servers and only 6 Linux and 1 Sco Unix.

Like you - I'm not a linux basher; I just get very worried when people say "Open Source sofware is free" (or things to that effect). There was a study a while back (done by IBM, so not totally impartial though) that showed that the cost of migrating to a "free" open source platform was really quite high, and in the long run it was cheaper (from a support point of view, Microsoft techies are cheap and cheerful, Linux techies are much rarer) to go with Windows...

Obviously, the situation is different for every company - and if the OP's company has a linux savvy user, then that may work out to be cheaper than windows.

At the end of the day, the only advice I can give is to document everything... if something does go wrong, it will be much easier (hence faster, hence cheaper) to figure out what's wrong if there is documentation in place. I HATE getting a system that has no documentation... it means spending half the time just figuring out what it does...

M.