New Bathroom Quote..... help!

[IanA2]

Long post but please bear with me.

I wonder if the collective can help me out here. I need a bathroom refurbishment. The work require is stripping the existing bathroom, building a dais for the new bath, tongue and grooving the walls to about 1.2M, installing new bath, basin and moving the WC but using existing soil outlet.

Floor only to be tiled after re-boarding, a radiator moved and replace with a ladder style towel radiator, re-boarding ceiling and installing two lights and an extractor fan.

The original plan was that I would do this, but physically I'm not up to it. I had a wet room done some time ago and although the job was done to an adequate standard I was concerned about the price which I thought was too high. Nevertheless I went ahead as I really needed the job doing, although I did make my views clear about both the price and the construction of the quote.

My main concern about the quote is the way it has been constructed and I explained to the young chap that people like to know what they are spending their money on. This seems to have fallen on deaf ears for I have asked him to quote for the new bathroom, and despite me asking for a labour charge this is what I've got:

Cost of bathroom installation/removal work £1500
• Tiling approx. 8.5sqm(floor and dias boxing only) charged at £30sqm this includes all
grouts and adhesives also (chrome trims x2 £25). £280
• skim/plastering walls and ceiling to make good for painting, as tiles and lights are to
changed causing damage £350 (2 days + materials i.e. bonding, skim,skrim and sealer)
does Not include new boards if walls need re-boarding
• Electrics, to include the wiring off the new lights and fan, new fan is included.( you must
provide the 2g2way light switch to allow for fan iso etc)(you said you already had). £200
• 4 Yard multi waste Skip £150
• All sundries and pipework alterations £300
• Box work of new platform for bath using structural wood to make sure no future
problems + tongue and groove to be fitted in selected areas as well as new water
resistant chipboard flooring. (extra tong and groove approx. £40-50) £500-£550
• Ply floor for tiling.£60
If there are any unforeseen problems that arise they will be charged accordingly to cover
materials/costs.
Minor problem will be covered by myself within reason.
Total cost for all labour and works: £3360

Maybe this is a reasonable sum, maybe it's not, I don't see how I can tell. He seems to be charging £1.5K for unspecified work then charging "extra" for work that he's decided to specify.

His work is ok (he thinks it's brilliant, but then he's very young!), and he's house-trained. His day rate is £180. My problem is that I can't shake the idea that I'm being overcharged, but without a detailed breakdown, how can I tell?

I'll be buying all the kit which comes to about £2k.

So, does anyone have experience of this? Am I being silly, is it unreasonable to expect a detailed quote? I've tried several times and have even explained to him how an MB dealer invoice is laid out. It may be that it's quite a reasonable quote and perhaps that's how people quote for bathrooms, I just don't know.

All observations/suggestions welcome.

Thanks

 

[Bakili]

I recently completed bathroom renovation, couple days ago.
I had shower cabin, needed bath conversion as it was difficult to bath little one.

Work done, was remove shower cabin, remove basin all plumbing work, remove tiles. Install new bath, basin, tile 2 walls, all plumbing new ceiling new towel radiator, couple new floor tiles ( under bath), electric wiring for bath spot lights, electric fan extractor install and total cost incl labour £1345

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[wemorgan]

I feel your frustrations as this echoes my experience of tradespeople. All I can suggest is to get a few quotes including at least one from someone recommended at take it from there.

How many days is he estimating the job to be? ie. what's his day rate?

 

[IanA2]

How many days is he estimating the job to be? ie. what's his day rate?

He's not giving a time estimation that's the problem, his day rate is £180. If I was fit to do the job, and doing the it at my slow rate, I would estimate 10 days max, so he should be much quicker.

 

[MCFastybloke]

Try other fitters for comparative quotes to get a feel for the value of the works.

Its just too difficult to dissect his figures at arms length.

But for comparison Next Wednesday I start a bathroom/separate toilet refurb,i am removing all existing fittings replastering,new downlighters 2x humidistat fans plywood floors to receive vynil move towel rail 25m sq of tiling and dipose of all waste 2350 plus vat.Customer is providing all pottery,shower tiles etc

Some times as a contractor its about what we can get for a job.

 

[stumpy1]

And is he bringing in the proper trades when needed?

 

[wemorgan]

He's not giving a time estimation that's the problem, his day rate is £180. If I was fit to do the job, and doing the it at my slow rate, I would estimate 10 days max, so he should be much quicker.

It's difficult to tell, but I wonder if he's double counting some of his labour.

10 days sounds more than enough time for all the tasks = £1500-£2000 labour

But then there are itemised tasks charged at extra labour. (tiling & plastering)

Time for another quote I feel.

 

[grober]

Seems fairly detailed to me. Most tradesmen just hate paperwork! Is he "outsourcing" any of this work to third parties? This can result in you paying 2 people's profit on the one job? Do the figures include VAT? I can sympathise to an extent with the " caveats" since until you start the job you don't really know what you are going to find. I always think with plumbing better safe than sorry- that cheap and cheerful job may not have the same appeal when the shower tray/bath waste pipe starts to leak in an unget-at-able place a couple of months down the line? Get a few quotes/personal recommendations if possible as has been said

 

[R2D2]

I know every job is different and every tradesman charges a different rate but both a plumber and a decorator both charged me £100 per day. The plumber was slow but OK. The painter was excellent at any price. £180 is OK but only if he really is worth it. Like you, I hate getting work done and the associated aggro re prices and getting a job done.

 

[Piff]

I'm currently working on a bathroom refit and have another to do in a couple of weeks time.
Current one is strip out old bath, basin, wc, wall & floor tiling.
Re-board & skim ceiling. Re-skim a couple of walls.
Minor electrical alterations & fit customers light.
New shower bath, cabinets, inset basin wc with concealed cistern, more cabinets.
Fully tile 2 walls, half tile 2 walls. New radiator & adapted pipework.
Total incl VAT £5900
The other one is a smaller bathroom. Strip out, fit new large shower enclosure in place of bath, new cabinets, inset basin & wc with concealed cistern. Full height tiles to 2 walls & half tiling to other 2 walls. New ladder style radiator & adapted pipework.
Total incl VAT £5250

 

[developer]

£180.00 a day isn't cheap for around here (broadly).

I'd go to a decent plumbers merchant and ask for the name(s) of someone they recommend.

You certainly need an alternative quote for comparison.

 

[renault12ts]

MIL's bathroom last month.

Complete back to brick strip out. So, plaster and skim walls, floor relaid , tile walls and floor, electrics, plumbing new shower fitting and towel rad...£2000. Bathroom was 64 sq feet.

Builder did not charge for his own time (but gets a free week in our holiday home).

 

[Harrythedog]

Seems expensive to me. Why quote £1500 for removal and fitting of suite then another £300 for pipe work & sundries?

A decent plasterer would skim that in well under a day. Also the electrical price seems excessive as the wiring will no doubt be already there save for a small amount of alteration. I certainly don't like the bit where all other costs involved will be charged regardless of your sayso.

As others have said get a few other quotes or preferably use someone who has been recommended

 

[davidjpowell]

10 days sounds like a long time to me, for what that job entails.

 

[renault12ts]

Job, as described above, took 10 days...

 

[W4E300]

We just did ours including a wet room(!) for £9k inc everything (Bose sound system etc) & I thought it was going to be about £5k...beware! The phrase "underfloor heating sounds a nice idea darling" translates into a mad world of 'wife maths'.......and there goes the 55 AMG. (for this year anyway.....!)

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[A210AMG]

I would be looking around,

We have recently done two bathrooms, knocked one room into two and kitted both out / wiring, rads, showers, baths, sinks, tilling, floors, fans, mirrors.

Now we are reasonable handy and built the stud wall, plaster boarded the wall (and insulated it), fitted the floor. Then the plumber did his bit getting the pipes around, the electrician did his bit. Then we tilled, and painted.

Both bathrooms came in around £4000 (for the bits) and I bought what I thought is nice stuff (Roca?) the bath is huge 900 wide by 1800 (I think) its ace. The mirror has a Dab radio built in and both are demister types. Both have the fans in and towel rails.

Fitting both bathrooms, bearing in mind we did some of the labour work was around £1500. We used the contact from the plumber and managed to get trade prices for the bathroom bits, I was told its around £9k worth of kit (don't know how true that is but the bath apparently £1K on its own?)

I have a few pictures they are not finished but you get the idea...from what we had...



then we split the room up




Main bathroom





En suite bathroom


There's still finishing off to do but you get the idea, if you can help do any of the work you will save a fair bit, labour costs a lot... I don't mind paying out when I need to if its a skill I don't have or time I don't have. We had a joiner for around a week, £220 a day but he started at 8am and cracked on, got more done in 5 days than we would have in a month....

I spent hours painting the plaster and the walls... managed to get loads of metal filling in my fingers from boarding out the ceiling and walls from the screws.. worth it in the end though.


I's get some more quotes and try to get people that have been recommended who have done work for your friends / family

 

[IanA2]

Thanks for all the comments so far, to answer some of the queries. He's doing all the work himself (except the plastering) and has tickets for plumbing, gas and electric. I've seen his pipework and woodwork skills and they're ok. In my wet-room he subbed out the tiling and the electrics, but now he has his electric ticket so he'll be doing that. I haven't seen his tiling but I've no reason to to think it will not be ok.

The floor tiling is pretty straight-forward, the tiles are 600x300. I had thought that tilers charged a little less to lay larger tiles. As it is, at £30 sqm, (which I do think is excessive) it works out at £5+ per tile.

A question for the professionals that have posted. Would you produce a quote in the way he has?

My feeling is that he's seen what the likes of Dolphin charge and he reckons that he should be getting the same.

I think he sees the £1500 as his "profit" in effect disregarding that he has already been paid for the work.

It's a real pita getting guys in and going through the whole quote business but I think if I can't get him to see sense I will be going elsewhere. He's very young and a bit headstrong, he thinks his work is wonderful and that he deserves big payments, so I think it will be difficult to get through to him. It's a pity because he is a nice lad and I do want him to succeed, but he needs to know that he doesn't "deserve" big money, and also that in these straitened times, he'll need to get in touch with reality or he will lose customers.

 

[MCFastybloke]

No,i don't produce a detailed quote unless asked,to prevent dissection. and retrospective cost analysis
I do have a standard "cant see it cant cost it"clause.

 

[R120]

On my projects in central London, where rates are obviously high, we allow 5-6k plus VAT for a bathroom refurbishment that does not require significant repositioning of wastes and m&e.

This would be based of duravit sanitary ware , a Schneider cabinet, Grohe taps and valves, and kaldewei or Bette bath or shower, and a majestic or Matki shower enclosure/screen.

Within that I would have made an allowance for £40 per sq m tiling, underfloor heating and new led down lighting and extractor.

I would allow 10 working days for the job.

The most common mistake I see in bathrooms is people not using wbp ply in shower and wet areas, and just tiling onto the wrong surfaces.