New car - Non-MB - What do you think?

[merc85]

Haha no class huh. Very subjective and a matter of opinion but what are your thoughts comparing it to W126? I think it looks much more classy and sleeker. W126 kinda just looks like a big ugly Elephant don't ya think?

Also, has no Nissan Emblems, instead it sports Leopard branding. So people wouldn't be able to put it into a 'low-status' class without knowing it's a Nissan first ey.

Humm sorry disagree , But still a nice Thread.

 

[shyam27]

Humm sorry disagree , But still a nice Thread.

Hey that's cheating! The widebody W126 AMG SEC is simply just gorgeous and one of my dream cars but boy how many organs would you have needed to sell back in the day to send your SEC into an AMG tuning house?

I think this is more of a fair comparison.

 

[merc85]

Hummmm its good to disagree lol

 

[shyam27]

Hummmm its good to disagree lol

Absolutely can agree on that. Would have been a bit boring if everyone came and said it looks awesome etc. I was hoping for a bit of debate and disagreement, that's why I love this place! haha

 

[Doodle]

On your point with comparing w126 and the Nissan and it being a domestic product, can you explain why Mercedes products are not domestic products?

I'm surprised at having to explain this to someone with such an apparent interest in Japanese cars, this is bread and butter motoring history.

Not domestic (i.e. made in) to Japan. The home market was the primary outlet for the F31. For the Japanese, Mercedes was at the time very much a status symbol. More so if LHD, it's viewed as more foreign, more exotic. Someone who is looking for that, isn't going to be considering anything produced in their home country.

The same would be largely true in the US, the other main market under the guise of the Infiniti M30. There, traditional Japanese marques at the time were actively viewed as inferior - hence the rebranding of Nissan to Infiniti, Toyota to Lexus etc to try and overcome the snob factor.

 

[shyam27]

I'm surprised at having to explain this to someone with such an apparent interest in Japanese cars, this is bread and butter motoring history.

Not domestic (i.e. made in) to Japan. The home market was the primary outlet for the F31. For the Japanese, Mercedes was at the time very much a status symbol. More so if LHD, it's viewed as more foreign, more exotic. Someone who is looking for that, isn't going to be considering anything produced in their home country.

The same would be largely true in the US, the other main market under the guise of the Infiniti M30. There, traditional Japanese marques at the time were actively viewed as inferior - hence the rebranding of Nissan to Infiniti, Toyota to Lexus etc to try and overcome the snob factor.

Thanks for explaining Doodle, I was under the assumption that you were referring to Gross Domestic Products as a whole and implying that Mercedes doesn't form any GDP.

LOL that's the most nonsense I've ever heard. They didn't change brands because they were inferior. Jap manufactures catered to a market which supplied high volume, your basic run of the mill cars that used to be more reliable than most other 'run of the mill' cars. In fact Japanese reliability is what killed the British Automotive manufacturing industry. They created new brands (i.e Lexus, infiniti, Crown) to set up a new manufacturing lines with different quality controls in place so that they could manufacture, higher end, more luxurious cars combined with different marketing strategies that target different market groups and the west.

 

[Doodle]

Please re-read what was posted. I said *viewed* as inferior.

I'm afraid the nonsense here is yours. Read up on the import levies and taxations placed on imported Japanese vehicles, and the reasons behind that. The American car market at the time was (and perhaps under Trump will be again) fiercely protective of its own product, especially in the luxury market, and viewed most Japanese cars as "grocery getters". It is rather ironic that with time the Accord and the Camry went on to be so popular, but not until later.

For the brands mentioned, you'll find the same products that were sold as Lexus etc in the US were branded as Toyota or Nissan back in Japan. Only later did you see Lexus on the Japanese market. It's simply a case of projected image to overcome market views, it's even mentioned in their brand history.

And the British car industry was sunk for a number of reasons, not just the Japanese offerings.

 

[Deleted96908]

In the late 70s and early 80s in East Africa we had Land Cruisers, Cressidas, Corollas and a single, much sought after Mazda 626 coupe. There were other European staff issue cars, but the Japanese were always first choice given the toys, the fuel economy and the seat upholstery - which didn't burn your legs and back given every day was 40c +. Best of all though were the Peugeot 504s which had uncanny ability to race across very rough ground, making them first choice amongst many taxi drivers. Alas, we weren't allowed them for some reason.

 

[Martin 1]

and again, ---------- no class ! and no one cares if you don't want to hear it again--------and don't be so defensive, you did ask !

 

[Wolfie1]

I think that things cool, most older vehicles out of japan just ooze coolness, but then again i am a bit bias having an older jap import myself

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I think this is more of a fair comparison.

You’re not doing your argument any favours posting them next to each other!

 

[PobodY]

I think it's of it's time. - Having had the Australian domestic version I can recognise all the bells and whistles they put in this car compared with the budget versions.

Was it the Vauxhall Cavalier that used to talk at you with reminders about seat belts etc? That's very Japanese (they're always making noises to tell you about something) and would seem incredibly dated now, but I remember being incredibly impressed by that in the late '80s.

 

[Doodle]

I believe that was the Maestro & Montego. (along with some Renaults, the 11 may have been their first candidate)

 

[shyam27]

Please re-read what was posted. I said *viewed* as inferior.

I'm afraid the nonsense here is yours. Read up on the import levies and taxations placed on imported Japanese vehicles, and the reasons behind that. The American car market at the time was (and perhaps under Trump will be again) fiercely protective of its own product, especially in the luxury market, and viewed most Japanese cars as "grocery getters". It is rather ironic that with time the Accord and the Camry went on to be so popular, but not until later.

For the brands mentioned, you'll find the same products that were sold as Lexus etc in the US were branded as Toyota or Nissan back in Japan. Only later did you see Lexus on the Japanese market. It's simply a case of projected image to overcome market views, it's even mentioned in their brand history.

And the British car industry was sunk for a number of reasons, not just the Japanese offerings.

Doodle, apologies for the miss understanding there but it's quiet hard to differentiate between viewing as inferior and being inferior. Why would you tell me that they were 'actively viewed as inferior' when the real reason they placed all those levies and taxes on JDM vehicles is that they actually felt threatened by them and wanted to protect their home product?

Ultimately, if anything, wouldn't it be the opposite? That essentially means that they were actually superior because the American car market felt threatened by their products and wanted to protect their own market from them? It's like mixing the truth with a lie so that it sounds believable, just tell me straight what the deal is rather then taking me through a loop like all these fookin' politicians on the TV. Americans love JDM cars, particularly the younger generations and the older lot are slowly coming around because whilst they were using these big block engines to build for big power, they know it's super impressive to casually make 400 bhp with a little bit of tinkering to a 2.0 Turbo Evolution or what have you.

I know German cars were also given awkward regulations etc. They even banned many European and JDM cars like the Skyline as if it would entice the whole nation into buying European/Japanese cars.

In the late 70s and early 80s in East Africa we had Land Cruisers, Cressidas, Corollas and a single, much sought after Mazda 626 coupe. There were other European staff issue cars, but the Japanese were always first choice given the toys, the fuel economy and the seat upholstery - which didn't burn your legs and back given every day was 40c +. Best of all though were the Peugeot 504s which had uncanny ability to race across very rough ground, making them first choice amongst many taxi drivers. Alas, we weren't allowed them for some reason.

Exactly, you make a great point. Number 1 choice in extremely hot countries and terrible road conditions is a good Japanese car. And on top of that, they don't charge you £500 extra for folding mirrors!

You will never believe what my friend from Bahrain tells me... that the Arab girls get more impressed with his dad's Toyota Land Cruiser over his Black SL55 AMG. I didn't believe it myself.

and again, ---------- no class ! and no one cares if you don't want to hear it again--------and don't be so defensive, you did ask !

I'm stoked! I'd rather have no class than have class and be boring and miserable like you my man!

I think that things cool, most older vehicles out of japan just ooze coolness, but then again i am a bit bias having an older jap import myself

Thanks for the kind words Wolfie. What JDM import do you have?

You’re not doing your argument any favours posting them next to each other!

Thanks SPX, You really think so? I think it must be an age thing. But me personally (for someone who does appreciate style of old Mercs), the Leopard just looks much sharper and sleeker. The lines and even the marker lights on the hood make it look much more presidential. There doesn't seem to be any attempt at aerodynamics on the SEC. In short, the SEC looks like Pauline from Sunday Church but the Leopard looks like Jennifer Lopez, you get meh?

I think it's of it's time. - Having had the Australian domestic version I can recognise all the bells and whistles they put in this car compared with the budget versions.

Was it the Vauxhall Cavalier that used to talk at you with reminders about seat belts etc? That's very Japanese (they're always making noises to tell you about something) and would seem incredibly dated now, but I remember being incredibly impressed by that in the late '80s.

I had never heard about the R31 Pintara until you mentioned it. They look like they would make excellent track day cars! Haha yes, the novelty of all the gizmos won't wear off for a while!

 

[Wolfie1]

I have an efini rx7 type rz

 

[NOMONEYBUTAMERC]

Vive la difference ! ( or equivalent in Japanese) . A lot of people loved my Lorinser kitted SL R107 , a lot of people didn`t. If I drive a car that is not "standard" looking , it`s my choice . I think your car is "interesting" ( but dump the shite stickers , and keep the nail varnish).

 

[Doodle]

Doodle, apologies for the miss understanding there but it's quiet hard to differentiate between viewing as inferior and being inferior. Why would you tell me that they were 'actively viewed as inferior' when the real reason they placed all those levies and taxes on JDM vehicles is that they actually felt threatened by them and wanted to protect their home product?

Ultimately, if anything, wouldn't it be the opposite?

You're dealing with separate groups of people here, in different scenarios. The car makers know the Japanese offerings have the potential to give them a very hard time, so they lobby the lawmakers to place import levies and taxes to try and keep them out in the first place, or at least make them less competitive to protect their business. This is at a time where there were various bits and pieces going on with import/export agreements so it's a little messy.

Entirely separately, you have the perceptions of the buying public. Setting aside the patriotic "Buy American" rhetoric that goes in hand with the above, thus far their association with Nissan, Toyota et al has been with little hatchbacks and basic runarounds. They wouldn't envisage buying a luxury vehicle from the same manufacturer, hence you see the arrival of brands like Lexus, Acura and Infiniti to try and create some separation from the parent manufacturer's perceived image. Thus the same car that is branded as the Lexus LS400 (and the 430 that followed) in the US, happily sells as the Toyota Celsior for many years in the home nation.

It is quite possible this marketing sidestep wasn't necessary, as the surging popularity of the Accord and Camry proved that the next generation of Americans were more than happy to buy Japanese. Add in a little Hollywood magic, and the frenzy for Japanese "exotica" that they had been denied thus far goes into overdrive as they hit the 25 year mark and become eligible for import. The DOT laid down some fairly stringent standards for vehicles to be eligible in the US. More often that not, it was that the manufacturer was not prepared to, or did not think the market worthwhile enough to commit to the necessary works that prompted the "ban", rather than a targeting of specific models.

 

[wu56Shoozz]

Don't You Mean :

 

[clk320x]

W126 kinda just looks like a big ugly Elephant don't ya think?

Are you for real????!!!!!!

 

[wu56Shoozz]

Umm..yes otherwise he wouldn't have said it..

Me personally, I love seeing them all.. The "rice" just looks so date mean and slick, The 126 Fat as Feck.. awesome overall, a great thread.. brings back a host/raft of memories. I had one these many moons ago..

12" Laura Branigan - Self Control/ Portion of Chicken Pakora and a can of Irn Bru and this on a late Friday evening Ahh Bliss...

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/uploads/cars/fiat/2302011.jpg

Same colour too