Well it seems that battery development has taken a giant leap forward,with batteries being able to be charged in a maximum of 10 mins,and so charging will take just as long as filling a diesel car with fuel,of course that does not help car makers because nobody will want the current EV cars and their value will drop of a cliff,such are the dangers of joining in the EV race too soon.
New electric battery
- Thread starter zipdip
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Deleted member 126969
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Any details? Is this the storedot thing?
Thing is, a rapid charge only really achieves one thing - a good thing, but only one thing - it makes owning an EV a practical proposition for folk who can't home charge. Of course, you are going to need a pretty serious charger to achieve that. Assume a battery of 80kWh - assume it's got 20% left in it and wants charging. You need to dump 60kWh into it in 10 minutes. That's an average power of 360kW. I say average, as they tend to charge much faster when empty than full, so in practice, it'll probably charge at way more than 360kW initially, unless it's limited. So not only do you need a pretty serious charger, the on-board BMS is going to have to be pretty impressive too in order to manage all that power without exploding or melting. All perfectly possible, but not cheap.
The bigger the battery pack, the worse the problem (assuming the same 10 minute charge).
Other than rapid charging, it doesn't do anything else unique and life being what it is, you can pretty much guarantee that there will be compromises in battery life as a consequence of this rapid charging.
Porsche have 350kW chargers, but not many, so it's all do-able.
If it did hurt used EV values, that would suck for current owners but would benefit 2nd hand buyers, no? That would help adoption.
You could even see a manufacturer offering options - 'slow' charge long life or 'fast' charge, at a premium, no doubt.
On balance, I think I'd see it as inevitable and desirable progress, but yes, of course, it sucks to be an early adopter. - Always does, always will.
Thing is, a rapid charge only really achieves one thing - a good thing, but only one thing - it makes owning an EV a practical proposition for folk who can't home charge. Of course, you are going to need a pretty serious charger to achieve that. Assume a battery of 80kWh - assume it's got 20% left in it and wants charging. You need to dump 60kWh into it in 10 minutes. That's an average power of 360kW. I say average, as they tend to charge much faster when empty than full, so in practice, it'll probably charge at way more than 360kW initially, unless it's limited. So not only do you need a pretty serious charger, the on-board BMS is going to have to be pretty impressive too in order to manage all that power without exploding or melting. All perfectly possible, but not cheap.
The bigger the battery pack, the worse the problem (assuming the same 10 minute charge).
Other than rapid charging, it doesn't do anything else unique and life being what it is, you can pretty much guarantee that there will be compromises in battery life as a consequence of this rapid charging.
Porsche have 350kW chargers, but not many, so it's all do-able.
If it did hurt used EV values, that would suck for current owners but would benefit 2nd hand buyers, no? That would help adoption.
You could even see a manufacturer offering options - 'slow' charge long life or 'fast' charge, at a premium, no doubt.
On balance, I think I'd see it as inevitable and desirable progress, but yes, of course, it sucks to be an early adopter. - Always does, always will.
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Deleted member 159894
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Which EVs are you talking about?
Sounds ideal.
Sounds ideal.
Well it has been invented in the USA and the Chinese now say they can charge a battery up in 5 mins,it seems that the battery has to be heated to 60c this then allows it to be charged quickly,thats it ,look at What Car online.
grober
MB Master
These batteries seem to be based on LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE = LFP technology--- no expensive cobalt involved and thus cheaper to make. There appears to be some doubt about their performance in cold conditions which might tie up with the need to maintain them at high temperature for fast charging-- affects ion mobility evidently. Tesla--oh I said a bad word 
-- have evidently been fitting LFP batteries in their model 3 made in China for several months now. The ability to fast charge only becomes an issue when related to range ---- with adequate range, fast charging ability is not an issue since many owners will not be driving their vehicles for extended periods of time leaving plenty time for charging at lower rates. One could see a time when prospective EV owners may be offered a choice of alternative battery technologies depending on how they intend to use their cars. skip the first 3 minutes of what follows
-- have evidently been fitting LFP batteries in their model 3 made in China for several months now. The ability to fast charge only becomes an issue when related to range ---- with adequate range, fast charging ability is not an issue since many owners will not be driving their vehicles for extended periods of time leaving plenty time for charging at lower rates. One could see a time when prospective EV owners may be offered a choice of alternative battery technologies depending on how they intend to use their cars. skip the first 3 minutes of what follows
jimbg
Active Member
And then we have solid state batterys coming along.
Keep an eye on Toyota, they were pioneers for hybrid and it quite noticeable that they have no pure EV today.
Keep an eye on Toyota, they were pioneers for hybrid and it quite noticeable that they have no pure EV today.
Tonygw
MB Enthusiast
Hydrogen cars can already be refueled in less time, why bother with batteries that have a limited life span?
Not to mention the size of the charger needed to charge a battey in such a short time period.... the cables to carry such power would be so massive you would need a crane to lift them onto the car.
Not to mention the size of the charger needed to charge a battey in such a short time period.... the cables to carry such power would be so massive you would need a crane to lift them onto the car.
Gazwould
MB Enthusiast
All a con and about £££ , not giving us the right answer first .
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Deleted member 126969
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Fuel cells have limited lifespans too. Current numbers suggest around 10000 hours.
Power is volts x amps. Cable size determines to a large degree the current it can carry. If you are struggling with carrying the current, increase the voltage. Which is precisely what Porsche did with the Taycan - an 800V battery, so they can charge at 270kW maximum. That's 270000/800=337.5A Or about the same as your starter motor. They do use larger cables to mitigate heating, and they are cooled as well, so yes, fairly bulky but not in any way unmanageable.
I keep saying it, but the fundamental issue with H2 as a fuel is how do we produce it in sufficient bulk in a sustainable way. It has other issues too - keeping it where you want it is a non-trivial exercise. The pressure vessels used to store it will be 'lifed'. Producing it and using it in a fuel cell is horribly inefficient compared with just charging a battery directly (factor of 2 to 3). It's got really nasty habit of going bang in a spectacular way.
We will see H2 as a fuel, but probably not a significant one for personal transport any time soon. Meanwhile, we'll be needing cars, so BEV it is.
My point is, there is no magic solution. There are alternatives with have issues all their own, along with solutions to some of those issues.
BPD07
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Thank heavens for early adopters of the technology, who help to bring it into a realistic price for others.
The time taken to charge an EV is dependent upon the size of the battery in the car and the size of the available charger; it is just simple maths. At the moment the charger size is the limitation not the ability of the battery to accept a massive charge rate. One of the attractions of an EV is the ability to charge at home when the car is not being used and to take advantage of either cheap rate electricity (at night) or from free power generated from solar panels. So until there is a much better charging infrastructure with much higher charging rates this announcement changes nothing for existing EVs or their values.
BTW i do think that EVs will suffer a higher depreciation rate pa than a ICE equivalent - but this is more than offset by lower running costs per mile.
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