New Engine & Box for W124 220

[Nigel Cuttell]

I have a nice 124 220TE estate with blown engine. I am planning to transplant a 220 CDi diesel engine and auto box into it (from a recent write off W210 or W211 or C Class). I expect I will need all ancilliaries as well to make the job easier (including ECU and engine wiring loom). Has anyone any knowledge of whether the swap will be straightforward mechanically (eg. will the gear shift lever be in the right place; will the engine mountings need inventing; will the prop shaft be the right length etc.). I also wondered if anyone has a list of axle ratios for 124 models as I will probably need a much higher ratio for the diesel.
Any thoughts, advice, data appreciated.

 

[Dieselman]

Unless you have a complete donor car at your disposal this will be a nightmare project.
I would expect the engine and box to fit but you won't be a ble to run it because of the ECU which will be working on a Can, which your car doesn't have.

The axle ratios will be something like 3.75:1 for the 220TE and 2.65:1 for the CDi.

 

[iamamanc]

Good Luck !!!

 

[jaymanek]

Not going to work unless you have more money than sense..

 

[nick mercedes]

I have a nice 124 220TE estate with blown engine. I am planning to transplant a 220 CDi diesel engine and auto box into it (from a recent write off W210 or W211 or C Class). I expect I will need all ancilliaries as well to make the job easier (including ECU and engine wiring loom). Has anyone any knowledge of whether the swap will be straightforward mechanically (eg. will the gear shift lever be in the right place; will the engine mountings need inventing; will the prop shaft be the right length etc.). I also wondered if anyone has a list of axle ratios for 124 models as I will probably need a much higher ratio for the diesel.
Any thoughts, advice, data appreciated.

It won't fit.

None of it will fit, how did you plan to fit an exhaust?

Buy another E220 petrol engine.

 

[Nigel Cuttell]

It won't fit.

None of it will fit, how did you plan to fit an exhaust?

Buy another E220 petrol engine.

I will use most parts inc wiring loom, ECU etc from donor car. I plan to have the whole car to take bits as I need them. The exhaust will need to be fabricated/ modified as necessary (presumably there will be some sensors to connect up as well) . I was not intending this to be a weekend job!:bannana: Looks like I am on my own then. (

 

[Dieselman]

Nigel

I'm not sure you understand the problem. The CDi engine and gearbox will come from a fully electronic car where ALL the seperate units around the car talk to each other via a CAN.
Without all the seperate units the engine can't start, nor can the gearbox select any gears, and even then it will trip out due to the rear axle ratio being wrong.

This will be a major engineering challenge that will need assistance from very technical electronics programmers and probably MB themselves.

You would be better to spend the money on a different car or just fit an older style diesel engine and running gear...

 

[Nigel Cuttell]

Thanks. Do you know the ratios of the 300D and the 320E? I assume no other non e-class axles are interchangeable.

 

[Dieselman]

Not going to work unless you have more money than sense..

I've only got 50p..

 

[Nigel Cuttell]

You are right - I did not realise the degree of integrated control. However, is it possible to reprogramme the ECU so that it ignores most of the "safety" interlocks (eg immobiliser, accident inertia sensors etc) and use only the essential inputs ie. wheel speed sensor for gearbox, potentiometer for throttle position, oxygen sensor for fuel adjustment, temperature sensor etc,etc. Presumably this is where the MB engineer comes in handy, or is it possible to access/ modify the program by other means (laptop & generic software).

 

[Dieselman]

The systems are very integrated and it would be a lot of trouble to convert tehm to work. for example the ignition switch is electronic and interfaces witht he engine ECU as does the gearbox.
Without all the proper information it wont run.

Here is a small example of the problems that will be encountered.

 

[Nigel Cuttell]

Looks like I need to do some research. Thanks very much for your input. I can see the problems now - "nightmare" is most probably the word. What a pity.....

 

[bolide]

I think the more practical way to approach this would be to accept that the engine / box needs the electronics and to transplant almost the whole running gear

Once you have the ECU, wheels sensors, loom, engine, box, box ecu, speedo binnacle, diff and sensors (and a few other bits I haven't thought of) the running gear thinks the car is a W210... because, to all intents and purposes, it is

If you have lots of time and a compete donor vehicle I don't think this is impossible. The sensible thing would be to fit a new / old 220 engine but we're not always sensible all of the time...

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[Nigel Cuttell]

Thanks Nick, that does seem a more practical approach. I am not sensible and so I will do some research along those lines (eg what will be needed to fit W210 axle; will W210 instrument cluster be persuaded to live in the W124 Dash; will the front wheel sensors need the W210 hubs; radiator hoses; heater hoses etc. etc. Perhaps I should go for the 320 CDi as it will no doubt give more satisfying performance yet be no more difficult a project.

 

[bolide]

I would personally love a W124 with a 320 CDi drivetrain. If anyone can point me in the direction of someone who's done this I'd be grateful

I suspect that the amount of effort and £££ required would make the project a non-starter but I'm sure someone, somewhere, has tried it

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[fredfloggle]

The systems are very integrated and it would be a lot of trouble to convert tehm to work. for example the ignition switch is electronic and interfaces witht he engine ECU as does the gearbox.
Without all the proper information it wont run.

Here is a small example of the problems that will be encountered.

Just read this with interest - I assume that the front wheel speed is determined by an Inductive pick-up somewhere - if this was the case , It would be possible to frig the signal back to the ECU by using a pulse divider or indeed by removing elements from the initiator

 

[nick mercedes]

Thanks Nick, that does seem a more practical approach. I am not sensible and so I will do some research along those lines (eg what will be needed to fit W210 axle; will W210 instrument cluster be persuaded to live in the W124 Dash; will the front wheel sensors need the W210 hubs; radiator hoses; heater hoses etc. etc. Perhaps I should go for the 320 CDi as it will no doubt give more satisfying performance yet be no more difficult a project.

The cluster won't plug into anything, or even fit the aperture.

A 210 has a front subframe and rack, while a 124 has a box and no subframe.

Nothing will fit or will be able to made to fit as the two cars are completly different.

Why waste an E320cdi and a W124 estate car to end up with at best a costly frankenstien car that may never run?

 

[nick mercedes]

I will use most parts inc wiring loom, ECU etc from donor car.

None of the parts from the donor car will fit the other car.

 

[Subyland]

A good turbo diesel engine is the dream of many 124 owners as the car never had one..with the exception of the 3L TD but this engine was no longer up to date by the time the facelift arrived...
axle ratios as follows:
220E manual= 3.67:1
220E auto= 3.02:1
280E/320E auto 4sp=3.06:1
280E/320E auto 5sp= 3.69:1
E300D manual=3.67:1
300TDT (estate)=2.65:1

Note that estates run on a shorter final ratio.

 

[Nigel Cuttell]

Thanks Subyland. I am looking at this as a rather more long term project now (taking into account the previous comments), and all ideas and info are most welcome to add to the file. I have had insurance quote from Adrian Flux for around £350 (fully comp) if the car starts as a 300TE with the 320CDi drive train. They consider as the power output will be nominally similar, it is not a performance enhancement - but imagine that extra torque and economy!
The 300 TD T axle ratio seems nice and long. I may be looking at the 320 CDi axle now in order that all mechanicals and electronics are the same family, however I need to do some measuring up on the mountings and see what suspension mods are necessary.