New house builds to have car chargers

[markjay]

If you think this is disagreement wait until the fighting over who gets the last available charger for the next ten hours kicks off!

This involves physical activity, moving cars, cable handling, etc. And will have to be done back to back to maximise charger usage. Seriously, two separate households coordinating a switchover at say, 3.00 am?

This hasn't happened so far... and I don't think it will. There are plenty of cars with the green stripe on the license plate parked in our street, and plenty of free charging points. But, of course, what you describe is a possibility. Time will tell.

BTW, I did so far 30 miles in the IONIQ 5 since Wednesday, about half of it on the motorway. The battery charge right now is 86% and the remaining range is showing as 241 miles. Both lamppost chargers in front on our building are currently not in use. I really don't think I'll argue with my neighbours when I need to charge it in a week's time.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

BTW, I did so far 30 miles in the IONIQ 5 since Wednesday, about half of it on the motorway. The battery charge right now is 86% and the remaining range is showing as 241 miles. Both lamppost chargers in front on our building are currently not in use. I really don't think I'll argue with my neighbours when I need to charge it in a week's time.

Always assuming that you don’t charge the Ioniq 5 when you’re at the Supermarket, shops, Club, or while visiting friends in the meantime…

 

[Dickster]

Agreed, but that's a theoretical risk. The practical reality is that it is not an issue (at least not in the areas that I intend to use).

I am checking on here from time to time:

Map of electric charging points for electric cars UK: Zapmap

UK-wide map of electric car charging points allowing EV drivers to find EV charge points and plan electric journeys to the nearest charging point.

www.zap-map.com

And the vast majority of charging points in the areas that I am checking are free almost all the time. People don't hog charging points, they just don't.

And the claim that things will get worse when more people have electric cars is again only a theoretical possibility, because such a claim contains the assumption that the growth in EV use will happen on the back of a stagnating charging network. I'd be happy to see some modelling regarding availability of charging points in future, if it makes assumptions regrading the growth in both use of EVs and the charging network.

As for filling-up at a petrol station compared to charging and EV... these comparisons are often disingenuous. Firstly, charging an EV is different to filling-up with petrol so comparing 'speeds' is focusing on only one narrow aspect. The question is whether it is more or less convenient overall.

If the nearest petrol station to you is (say) 10 or 15 minutes drive away. And you have a charging point at home (or in the street). You just got back from a long day of driving for work, you're knackered, it's' cold, dark and rainy outside (OK, that's just for dramatic effect...) and the gauge is on empty. Which is more convenient - a 20-30 minute round trip to the garage, plus 5-10 minutes refuelling, or plugging-in the car into the wall charger and putting the kettle on?

So there will be scenarios where refuelling an ICE is easier, and there will be scenarios where it isn't. Focusing on only one of the two isn't fair play

The issue with charging isn’t when you’re at home (assuming you have convenient private charging at home), it’s when you leave home and go out on the road on the longer journeys.

 

[Dickster]

While I have reservations over the suitability of BEV's to supersede ICE-powered personal transport, to some extent that's a lost battle as global policy makers have decreed that they are the direction of travel.

The point that I have been making in this thread is that with that decree comes responsibility to ensure that suitable infrastructure to support the modal shift from ICE-power to BEV's is made available, yet there is precious little evidence that there is a plan (let alone any action) to take responsibility for the big, difficult, investments that private companies cannot be relied upon to make.

Providing sufficient electrical power where it needs to be is not something that can be achieved by piecemeal uncoordinated actions, and the existing infrastructure is woefully inadequate to support the ballooning demand. On current evidence, we are heading for disaster.

Totally agree with you. We still can’t get internet and decent mobile phone coverage across the whole country, which is frankly, outrageous.

 

[markjay]

Always assuming that you don’t charge the Ioniq 5 when you’re at the Supermarket, shops, Club, or while visiting friends in the meantime…

Good point.

I can't speak for the rest if the country, but in the area where I live and where we have lamppost charging, the load on the grid isn't going to an issue. We have several 5.5kW chargers per street, so not a biggie for the grid even if they are all used at the sane time. The only question is whether battery range will continue to increase as EVs become more common. If instead of charging the car every other week people will start charging them only once every month, then the number of chargers will continue to be sufficient. The alternative would be to install bollards near each parking bay. But in essence I think the solution will be a mixture of 5.5kW for overnight charging, and higher-capacity chargers in public places.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Good point.

I can't speak for the rest if the country, but in the area where I live and where we have lamppost charging, the load on the grid isn't going to an issue. We have several 5.5kW chargers per street, so not a biggie for the grid even if they are all used at the sane time. The only question is whether battery range will continue to increase as EVs become more common. If instead of charging the car every other week people will start charging them only once every month, then the number of chargers will continue to be sufficient. The alternative would be to install bollards near each parking bay. But in essence I think the solution will be a mixture of 5.5kW for overnight charging, and higher-capacity chargers in public places.

What’s the economics on your overnight bollards on your street?

I’m wondering how much they cost relative to the more expensive ones “on the move,” and to the various “currently” free ones around the place?

I was at the BMW PGA Pro Am at Wentworth this week and was astounded by how few chargers were being used in the enormous BMW owners car park. Several thousand vehicles with no more than 40 chargers available of which perhaps 15 were being used, mainly by BMW’s own sign written BMW X5 shuttle cars

It seemed such an obvious place to be charging for the return journey.

 

[markjay]

What’s the economics on your overnight bollards on your street?

I’m wondering how much they cost relative to the more expensive ones “on the move,” and to the various “currently” free ones around the place?

Are you asking about the cost of installing the chargers, or the price of electricity?

I can't answer either... I only got my car last week, and the battery is still over 80%, so haven't actually charged it yet.

I think that people swapping from ICE to EVs initially won't care too much about the cost of electricity, because in any event it will be far cheaper per mile, but after the novelty wears off new owners will start comparing tariffs like they do with cost of fuel at garages.

But you raised and interesting point... there's plenty of availability of free chargers in our area, and your post got me thinking that unless more people buy EVs and charge them, then the economics might not work out for Ubricity (the chargers' provider who made the investment in installing them).

 

[Deleted member 113659]

... I only got my car last week,

Really? I thought you’d just had one out on a test drive.

congratulations on your new car.

start a (defectors) thread and post some pics.

 

[markjay]

...start a (defectors) thread and post some pics.

'Defector'? I still have the Merc.... I find it difficult to part with it...

 

[Deleted member 113659]

'Defector'? I still have the Merc.... I find it difficult to part with it...

Hehe. Didn’t mean to offend. I simply meant if you post a thread of your new non MB car it’d be in the defectors section.

 

[markjay]

What I would say, however, is that sadly I didn't warm-up to the EQC at all (to the extent that I have even declined a test drive offered by the dealer). And I actually do like the GLC, in fact I even considered getting a second-hand one at some point, but couldn't find many petrol examples - most of them were Diesel which I didn't want due to low annual mileage.

It's not that it's a bad car, instead it's more to do with the whole package, but I won't go into it now.

At any rate, for anyone looking for a compact SUV / Crossover EV, there's the ID.4 and the IONIQ 5, then going upmarket there's the EQC and e-tron, and with a push also the E-PACE. Soon we'll also have the ix, and more models from other manufacturers.

Of the above, the IONIQ 5 is the latest on the market, in fact I have not yet seen another one on the road... and not surprisingly it gets lots of stares and comments from strangers. But in time people will get used to seeing it, I guess.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Are you asking about the cost of installing the chargers, or the price of electricity?
I can't answer either... I only got my car last week, and the battery is still over 80%, so haven't actually charged it yet.
I think that people swapping from ICE to EVs initially won't care too much about the cost of electricity, because in any event it will be far cheaper per mile, but after the novelty wears off new owners will start comparing tariffs like they do with cost of fuel at garages.
But you raised and interesting point... there's plenty of availability of free chargers in our area, and your post got me thinking that unless more people buy EVs and charge them, then the economics might not work out for Ubricity (the chargers' provider who made the investment in installing them).

I was meaning the cost to you of using your streetside charger, compared to the cost to you of using your at home garage charger, shopping centre chargers, or the much more expensive Ubricity chargers. The costs are all going to impact how people use charging, and whether they can be bothered to install a charger at home.

When I was looking at the different (used) 2016/17 PHEV options this summer, the constantly repeated mantra was that those first owners (every man jack of them a company car tax avoider) couldn't be bothered to use payable chargers when out and about because of the cost, inconvenience and limited fuel saving (typically under a fiver (something under a gallon of fuel) for every usually chargeable three hour plug in)

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Hehe. Didn’t mean to offend. I simply meant if you post a thread of your new non MB car it’d be in the defectors section.

And there are a LOT of us here that would love, and need, to hear how your Ioniq 5 is going.

What a PHENOMENAL vehicle. Does yours have that unique launch full-length panoramic roof ?

For those unfamiliar, here's Jonny's take on this £40k "true Tesla beater."

A full video log would be good - but we'll settle for a few photos and headlines. (Please include the "PET" based interior)

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Bellow]

This hasn't happened so far... and I don't think it will. There are plenty of cars with the green stripe on the license plate parked in our street, and plenty of free charging points. But, of course, what you describe is a possibility. Time will tell.

OK, agreed - let's watch that space....

BTW, I did so far 30 miles in the IONIQ 5 since Wednesday, about half of it on the motorway. The battery charge right now is 86% and the remaining range is showing as 241 miles. Both lamppost chargers in front on our building are currently not in use. I really don't think I'll argue with my neighbours when I need to charge it in a week's time.

Would you stop banging on about your bloody IIONIQ5 on this thread - and please please start a separate thread within this forum section so we can hear the good. bad and ugly of EV experience from the front line?
All the info you are offering up is of interest and anchoring it one place would be appreciated by me at least and plenty others I suspect. This section though - not the graveyard that the 'defectors' section is.

 

[Bellow]

Good point.

I can't speak for the rest if the country, but in the area where I live and where we have lamppost charging, the load on the grid isn't going to an issue. We have several 5.5kW chargers per street, so not a biggie for the grid even if they are all used at the sane time. The only question is whether battery range will continue to increase as EVs become more common. If instead of charging the car every other week people will start charging them only once every month, then the number of chargers will continue to be sufficient. The alternative would be to install bollards near each parking bay. But in essence I think the solution will be a mixture of 5.5kW for overnight charging, and higher-capacity chargers in public places.

If the range increases so will the charge time so the situation doesn't improve (but the logistics worsen) and the answer to that is faster charging which requires more powerful chargers rendering 5.5kW ones obsolete.

 

[190]

I was meaning the cost to you of using your streetside charger, compared to the cost to you of using your at home garage charger, shopping centre chargers, or the much more expensive Ubricity chargers. The costs are all going to impact how people use charging, and whether they can be bothered to install a charger at home.

There is a dilemma here in that the car buying public bemoans the lack of public charging facilities but then if the energy rates are too high they won't use them except as a distress purchase. That's I would be doing anyway. We could end up with 2 classes of EV drivers, those that can charge economically at home and those who have to rely on public charging which I guess is your point in asking what the rates are. I wouldn't trust politicians to have enough common sense to realise people won't want to use the most expensive chargers so we could waste a lot of money on the wrong infrastructure.

 

[markjay]

If the range increases so will the charge time so the situation doesn't improve (but the logistics worsen) and the answer to that is faster charging which requires more powerful chargers rendering 5.5kW ones obsolete.

Again, I think that the solution will comprise of slow chargers for overnight charging which will be suitable for most use profiles, and faster chargers in public locations for those who need their cars charges faster. And, 150kW-350kW chargers in motorway services.

Just a reminder that on the occasion that every driver in the UK tried brimming their tanks all at once, the fueling infrastructure collapsed and there were long queues outside often-dry petrol stations. Our national refueling infrastructure is based on the fact that people only top-up when they need to, and that most cars on the road run quite happily with half a tank empty (on average).

(The same applies, by the way, to many other systems... banking, for example: think Northern Rock 2007. Or toilet paper, 2020.... )

As I said, my car's battery is currently on 86% and I don't see a need to charge it before it go down to 20%, which will probably happen around the end of next week.

So I think that the assumption that the public will behave differently with EVs is not only unfounded, but unrealistic. Why would everyone charge their cars to the full every day? Some may have a long daily commute to work, or use their cars for their business, or run a taxi, so will need to charge overnight every night, but that's hardly the majority of the car-owning population.

 

[markjay]

OK, agreed - let's watch that space....

Would you stop banging on about your bloody IIONIQ5 on this thread - and please please start a separate thread within this forum section so we can hear the good. bad and ugly of EV experience from the front line?
All the info you are offering up is of interest and anchoring it one place would be appreciated by me at least and plenty others I suspect. This section though - not the graveyard that the 'defectors' section is.

I am only mentioning the IONIQ 5 in respect of my own first-hand experience as a battery-car driver. What I posted so far wouldn't have been materially different if I had an ID.4, an EQC, an e-tron or an I-PACE. And I believe that the info provided is very relevant to the topic of the thread.

As for the IONIQ 5, it has its pluses and minuses, both in respect of its behaviour as an EV and as a car in general. I may start another thread specifically for this if there's sufficient interest among the members here, or just join a Hyundai forum and do it there. But that's a separate discussion.

 

[190]

Why would everyone charge their cars to the full every day?

I wouldn't want to charge it full every day but I would want to use a charging regime that maximised battery life which I think would mean not charging above 80% and not letting it go below 20%. What does the manufacturer recommend ?

 

[markjay]

I wouldn't want to charge it full every day but I would want to use a charging regime that maximised battery life which I think would mean not charging above 80% and not letting it go below 20%. What does the manufacturer recommend ?

Correct, this my understanding as well, I.e that you should keep the battery between 10%-20% charge (depending who you ask) and 80%.

The occasional 100% charge is only required if planning a long road trip. And, if charging along the route, then charging only up to 80% at each charging stop will optimuse progress, because the charging rate is being choked-down on purpose after the battery reaches 80% charge (this is the same for normal AGM batteries in ICE cars as well).

I didn't check yet what Hyundai recommend specifically for the IONIQ 5, but will do that and revert.