New member help! 01 w220 320cdi

Discussion in 'Engine' started by leicschris, Jul 10, 2014.

  1. leicschris

    leicschris Active Member

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Car:
    2001 w220 320cdi
    Hi All

    I am a new member, just joined after buying a 2001 (51plate) S Class 320cdi, coming over from the Jaguar fold, so whilst I am good with the spanners, this diesel engine is completely new to me.

    I bought my S Class on Monday and drove it back 150 miles without any problems, drove it numerous times on tuesday and wednesday again without problems always starting and driving.

    Today it has been playing up. I drove it half a mile this morning to out village shop and again it started fine. Came out of the shop and it took a few turns of the key to start but did start and drove back home the half mile.

    I went out an hour later to take the kids to school and it wouldnt start at all. Although the computer said I had a gallon of diesel left I thought that maybe it was out of fuel so I put another gallon in from a container and still didnt start.

    By this time the battery was losing charge so I put the jump leads on from my 4x4, keeping the 4x4 not running and tried to jump start the car. it did eventually start but the BAS/ESP warning lights came up. I let it warm up and then restarted the car and the warnings went off.

    I took the car for a run round the village and whilst the warnings stayed off, the car will not shift up gear either by the revs, or by using the tiptronic shift so I assume the car has gone into limp mode, although no warnings are shown and no limp mode light is lit!

    I put the car on a handheld eobd reader I have and no faults are showing on the memory either but the car does not shift gears.

    Tonight, I tried to start the engine again cold and again it was a pain although it did eventually start after about 5 minutes of cranking.

    Does anyone have any idea what may be going on, or any common problems causing this.

    I realise a star readout might be better but I live in a little village and am worried about driving the car with the gearbox not shifting

    Thanks in advance

    chris
    (leicestershire)
     
  2. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    27,099
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Location:
    Perth, Scotland
    Car:
    W204 C200CDI Estate
  3. V12

    V12 MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    5,610
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Location:
    Southampton
    Car:
    S320CDI LWB
    Yeah, sounds like you're either getting air in the fuel lines due to old plastic pipes/seals or your high pressure pump is not feeding enough pressure.

    Sort that and it's likely you'll solve the other problems.

    These engines don't need glow plugs to start even in freezing temperatures, let alone in the heat we have now.
     
  4. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

    Messages:
    34,206
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Car:
    Peugeot 403 Convertible
    Glowplugs won't stop a Cdi starting, especially in this weather.

    I suspect an air leak at the filter or the crank sensor is duff.

    The lack of gear changing is probably due to low battery voltage.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    leicschris

    leicschris Active Member

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Car:
    2001 w220 320cdi
    Hi guys

    Thanks, I did consider fuel pressure and will look into it. Ive googled and found a mobile mercedes specialist quite close and will call him tomorrow and see if he can get any error codes that my handheld reader wont.

    you mention low voltage causing the gearbox problems, with the engine running, wouldnt the alternator supply enough voltage to sort this?

    thanks
     
  6. V12

    V12 MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    5,610
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Location:
    Southampton
    Car:
    S320CDI LWB
    Yes, but then you will need to restart the car once the alternator has put enough power into the battery.
    With a star or other decent scanner you'll find an under voltage error code in the ECU.

    Take the plastic cover off and see if there is any air in the clear plastic fuel pipes.
    Get someone to crank it over whilst you watch the pipes.
     
  7. panason1c

    panason1c Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,141
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Location:
    Somerset
    Car:
    ML270cdi, VW Polo 1.9 tdi, BMW K1200rs
    A dying battery with bad cell(s) can act as a resistor and soak up the output from the alternator, check the voltage of the battery 'resting' and then check with the engine running. You need to see at least 12.6v resting and circa 14.2 engine running.

    As already suggested, sounds like air in the fuel system, usually from the 'hardened' seals where the underbonnet pipes enter the high pressure pump, etc

    ps... try to avoid jump starting MB, (inc other modern cars) the ecu's dont like voltage spikes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
  8. V12

    V12 MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    5,610
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Location:
    Southampton
    Car:
    S320CDI LWB
    Was referring to the engine top cover here. Sorry didn't make it clear.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    leicschris

    leicschris Active Member

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Car:
    2001 w220 320cdi
    Thanks

    I have taken the engine covers off and whilst I can't see any leaks I should look into changing the pipe seals as a matter of course.



    image-1879322388.jpg

    I did find a bodge that someone had done before where a small bar is being used to wedge a stone against a pipe in what I think might be the low pressure pump (is this right). I think the stone is keeping the connection together so that's obviously a problem but you have stated the problem maybe high pressure pump not low pressure.

    The battery this morning showed 12.1v and when the car eventually started showed 14.1v, I have it on charge now and will see how it looks after to see if it needs changing

    Chris
     
  10. tonyc280

    tonyc280 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    945
    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Car:
    1997 C280 V6 Elegance Auto Facelift. 1992 Kawasaki ZZR1100 C3
    Welcome to the forums form another member from Leicestershire. Not many of us me thinks. Hope it doesn't take long to fix your car. Regards, Tony.
     
  11. panason1c

    panason1c Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,141
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Location:
    Somerset
    Car:
    ML270cdi, VW Polo 1.9 tdi, BMW K1200rs
    12.1v isnt good unless the battery is low due to all the cranking you had to do, give it a charge and then check it again in the morning when it should show at least 12.5 volts.

    Re: 'bodge..... all fuel pipes must be 100% airtight at the connections to avoid starting problems.

    Check the short clear fuel pipe (next to the stone bodge) for air bubbles while the engine is running, same with any of the other clear pipes. Its better if the engine revs are raised while doing this as it produces more air bubbles (if present)
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
  12. Troon

    Troon Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,184
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Location:
    Staffordshire
    Car:
    A big one
    Also, don't throw that bar away. When it's not holding stones against critical engine parts, it lives in your toolkit and screws in to the hub in place of a wheel bolt to help removing and fitting the wheel.
     
  13. V12

    V12 MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    5,610
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Location:
    Southampton
    Car:
    S320CDI LWB
    Those last 2 posts are spot on advice. Listen to them and you won't go far wrong.

    In regards to the voltage, I do find that the batteries float at a slightly lower voltage than when fitted to a C class for example. It could be all the extra electronics causing load. I can't remember how long you have to wait until the car goes to sleep but it's quite some time.

    I wouldn't be too worried by 12.1V as long as it cranks well and goes straight to 14V all sounds good.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    leicschris

    leicschris Active Member

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Car:
    2001 w220 320cdi
    Hi All

    well the problem is even worse than I thought!

    I had a mobile mercedes specialist out this evening to put the car on the star program and to go through the faults listed.

    The starting problem is caused by no6 injector being faulty, giving a live reading of 5, not a great problem but one to sort.

    The major headache is that he thinks the EIS module is faulty as the BAS/ESP and the Electronic transmission control all have faults saying they cant communicate with the EIS.

    He put this down to either a canbus wire problem, but thought that unlilkely as all the canbus tests came up clear and working, or a faulty EIS module as it is the common link in all the faults.

    Strangely though, a live test of the EIS showed no faults either.

    It also mentioned something about the brake light switch but again the test on the brake light showed it was working! Some times the brake lights stay on even when the pedal is not being pressed.

    Any of you more know knowledgable guys able to help and direct me what to do next, we have just bought this car and need reliable transport living in a rural area and my other half is going mad that we have this problem after having the car 4 days

    Thanks

    Chris
     
  15. grumpyoldgit

    grumpyoldgit Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,604
    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Location:
    Stourbridge
    Car:
    C270CDI Avantgarde SE
    I suggest you get the brake light switch changed, faulty ones cause all sorts of problems with Mercs and it shouldn't be staying on. Have a search of the forums for faulty brake light switch.
     
  16. V12

    V12 MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    5,610
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Location:
    Southampton
    Car:
    S320CDI LWB
    Brake light switch is about a tenner and 10 minute job to change. Get that done.

    Get the injector and plastic pipes sorted and see what the starting is like and go from there.

    It's highly likely that an experienced mb tech has already given you the best advice and recommendation already.
     
  17. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

    Messages:
    34,206
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Car:
    Peugeot 403 Convertible
    ^ +1, and I think it may sort the BAS issue, which is unlikely to be CAN or EIS related.

    Checking all the CAN connections might be a good idea.
     
  18. OP
    OP
    leicschris

    leicschris Active Member

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Car:
    2001 w220 320cdi
    Thanks
    Where are the can connections to check
     
  19. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

    Messages:
    34,206
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Car:
    Peugeot 403 Convertible
    The back of the EIS and onto the ECU.
     
  20. panason1c

    panason1c Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,141
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Location:
    Somerset
    Car:
    ML270cdi, VW Polo 1.9 tdi, BMW K1200rs
    Change the brake light switch, the switch contains double contacts, one set is for the brake lights and the other set is involved in the engine management and abs systems.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.