New ML (off topic)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dieter, Sep 22, 2005.

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  1. Dieter

    Dieter Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Hi Stever,

    Frankly I can't see the point of your comment (except to prove John right ;) yet again). This whole issue has been done to death on several previous threads.

    If you can't add anything new to the debate don't bother.

    Cheers ;)
     
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  2. fuzzer

    fuzzer MB Club Veteran

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    youve obviously never been in the back of a w211 e class estate .... its tiny.

    4x4's are really good. You either love them or hate them. Talking about co2 emissions and fuel economy are non starters so don't even go there , no one buys it for either of those reasons.
     
  3. stever

    stever Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I'm fully aware that people don't buy 4x4s for good economy or low CO2 emissions, but I think that level of selfishness is a shame - to have such little respect for other motorists, pedestrians and the environment. So I am curious as to what people's motivations are for buying one.
     
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  4. marcos

    marcos Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Stever,

    My motivations for considering the ML are that is is large enough for my family and associated kit, it is comfy and well kitted out, looks good and has enough room for all my tools and associated work stuff.
    Now considering I have to carry some very bulky stuff and have to go onto sites that are sometimes like quagmire I reckon the ML fits the bill quite well.

    Now if I didn't have all the above requirements I would still consider one as I live in a free country and it's my choice.
    Do we all have to drive around in Nissan Micra's just to keep the do gooders happy?

    Marcos
     
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  5. Alfie

    Alfie Authorised Forum Sponsor Authorised Forum Sponsor

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    Well said, have a :bannana: and a rep point.
     
  6. Alfie

    Alfie Authorised Forum Sponsor Authorised Forum Sponsor

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    What about all those transits and the like that charge around driven by nutters in the main? Your arguments about 4x4's are flawed and have been dealt with many times before in other threads.
     
  7. stever

    stever Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Marcos, thanks for the reply. Sadly, the reasons you list for purchasing such a vehicle are not the norm - I rarely see a large 4x4 with more than one person in it, with any sign of having been off road, or loaded up with a lot of work kit. Of course you would be free to consider such a vehicle anyway, but if people decide to buy such a vehicle then I think they should be taxed more appropriately than is currently the case. It's only fair that some recompense is made for the environmental and safety damage that is caused by needlessly running such a large and heavy vehicle, when a smaller car would do.
     
  8. stever

    stever Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Transists are generally driven by people who need them to do their job. Unlike 4x4s. I'd be delighted if you could explain why my arguments are flawed.
     
  9. Alfie

    Alfie Authorised Forum Sponsor Authorised Forum Sponsor

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    4x4's cause no more impact on the environment than any other vehicle of similar engine size. 4x4's are generally driven far more slowly and carefully than many other types of car or commercial vehicle. I could go on and an but you'd get more use from the threads before on this issue.

    Search the forum for 'Are ML's that bad'. Dieter has in the past dispelled all the myths about how bad 4x4's are. Its just a current fad that the greens have adopted. It will pass.....
     
  10. stever

    stever Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Well that may be true, but doesn't that rather miss the point? That 4x4s need to have very large engines due to their enormous bulk. It's just simple physics. If people choose a 4x4 over a smaller, more efficient vehicle then yes, they are that bad.
     
  11. marcos

    marcos Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Whats worse

    A 4x4 using a 3 litre diesel engine or a large saloon using a 3 litre petrol?
     
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  12. glojo

    glojo MB Club Veteran

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    Hi stever,
    ;) Keep smiling... I am trying to follow the logic of the Co2 and economy logic, but unfortunately I seem to have to cherry pick at certain types of 4x4 to get it to fit your arguement. Are you saying that the more economical 4 x 4's should be banned, and yet larger petrol powered cars are perfectly acceptable?

    A Fiat Panda has a 4x4 derivative, and what about the Volvo XC range? What do you define as a 4x4? No one that makes this arguement has yet to define it clearly.

    Just look at our Government Ministers that have numerous large petrol engined cars just to travel 400 yards? You haven't singled them out for your criticisms.

    We have a freedom of choice in this country and long may it remain, I wonder what the economy :D ;) figures for a CL65AMG doing 200mph are?

    As you can see you have touched on a contraversial subject which has been well debated on other threads.

    Regards,
    John
     
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  13. Thmsshaun

    Thmsshaun Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    One person and one carais going to make no difference what so ever. The only way change will happen when governments like the USA sign up to the agreements. The new world China etc starts cutting back on their emissions. Or until the Government Tax's so much we simply cannot afford to drive big motors.

    Until that day if we have the money lets buy what we want and enjoy it.
     
  14. glojo

    glojo MB Club Veteran

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    I enjoy a good old fashioned healthy debate and I think this post highlights that we still have the freedom of choice?

    Poor old stever appears to be new to this forum and he gets a big red blobby for merely expressing his personal opinion. (that I disagree with)

    Surely by offering constructive reasons why we disagree is enough, or has he\she been a bad 4x4 hater elsewhere?

    You, you bullies.... Shame on you.. whoever dished out the blobby. :eek:

    Regards,
    John
     
  15. stever

    stever Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Interesting question. Without research I would say they would be similar on economy, perhaps with the diesel having a slightly lower CO2. But the diesel has much higher levels of particulate emissions, they are particulalrly damaging in cities and contribute to poor health. The point of my argument is choosing an inappropriately large car in excess of one's needs, and then trying to defend it as a rational choice. Of course there are cars other than 4x4s that fit these criteria. But it must be said that in the majority of cases, a 4x4 is not a rational purchase, which is why they have become such a target for the green lobby as they are an obvious visual symbol of disregard for others' wellbeing.
     
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  16. stever

    stever Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I have nothing against 4x4s, as there are situations where their use makes perfect sense. I have something against a "me first" society with disregard for others, of which driving a 4x4 has become something of a symbol. Probably unfairly, as flying long haul emits far more CO2.
     
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  17. Thmsshaun

    Thmsshaun Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Shame on the red blob see its redeemed itself now though.

    As said though when we are free to do and buy what we want we dont have to justify our purchases to anyone. Thats why we pay tax. Those with bigger vehicles get taxed accordingly as they put more fuel in them so it is all relative.

    Back on topic I quite like the look of the new ML. Was never that fond of the old one until I drove an ML500 and I swear it felt as fast as the C43 the ML55 must be madness. and whats the new AMG is it a 6.3 :eek:
     
  18. fuzzer

    fuzzer MB Club Veteran

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    i would buy one cause the look good , i like them and can afford one...

    simple as that. Now , if they did the Hummer H2 in RHD , i would buy one of those instead.
     
  19. Thmsshaun

    Thmsshaun Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Kicker Audio have got a Hummer running on 26" Chrome very pimp :cool:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Mambo

    Mambo Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    TRAX?
     
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