New petrol and diesel car sales will be 'banned from 2030'

grober

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At this precise moment of the G7 and the subject of multinational global tax avoidance her thinking is timely.

History tells us that innovation is an outcome of a massive collective effort – not just from a narrow group of young white men in California. If we want to solve the world’s biggest problems, we better understand that.
Mariana Mazzucato, Wired interview



The lockdown analogy is misleading because she is mainly talking of total global economic reform in which personal transport plays but a small part. "Lockdown" also gives an impression of rapid imposition of regulation but effective economic reform to combat climate change would take years not days or weeks to implement giving people plenty time to transition.
 

SW18

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Hmm, so at around the time the new Fleet of Concorde Style Airliners start ferrying the well off backwards and forwards across the Ogin, we can't drive our own Cars Anymore!🙃

To coin a phrase: You couldn't make it up! 😆
Yes, given the huge fuel consumption of supersonic flight, it is barking to be trying to get a new fleet airbourne.

57C9FA9C-6F23-4011-8DFE-DCE7A151690A.jpeg

But will it happen? I’m not so sure it will come to anything.

I notice they’re only aiming for Mach 1.7 which presumably takes considerably less fuel than Concorde’s Mach 2. Concorde was over 50% fuel at take-off!
 
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markjay

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I suspect that EV’s will become very heavily taxed once there are enough of them in use to represent the latest cash cow for the government.

I disagree.... with the word 'suspect'.

I propose 'certain' instead.
 

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Any entrepreneurs out there? Strikes me that a fleet of vans equipped to deliver a very fast charge to stranded EV ("thought I could make it to the next garage with the correct charging point" etc. etc.) may be a a good idea? Just cost you 1% of revenue for the idea! <patent pending> :)

P.S. If I had a bunch of idle money I'd be looking to invest in a couple of up and coming battery technology companies and just wait for the IPO!
 

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And tax will be loaded on petrol/diesel in an attempt to drive us toward EV thinly veiled as "saving the planet"

Economic complication is that increased duty on diesel affects commercial transport costs not just private motoring.
 

raspy

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I disagree.... with the word 'suspect'.

I propose 'certain' instead.
I disagree. The Treasury will need to rethink motoring taxation so that it's fairer (regardless of whether the car used is a hybrid, BEV or a ICE car) - looking at the way the wind is blowing, I believe some form of road pricing will be introduced by 2030. Even if there are more people switching from ICE to EV, those EVs could still be causing congestion on our already congested and busy roads, especially in cities. Hence, the possibility of road pricing as the main form of motoring taxation.

The forecast that because the government will lose tax revenue from those switching from ICE to EV means that taxation on EVs will rise heavily is also a bit weird. When people quit smoking (and thus the Treasury loses tax revenue), the government doesn't tax someone more to make up for that lost cigarette duty revenue, do they?

Furthermore, whilst EV sales are likely to grow exponentially, EVs are unlikely to be a majority of vehicles on our roads by 2030. We have approx 33 million cars licenced in this country at the moment, and;

"Going forward, projections by National Grid suggest that the UK stock of EVs could reach between 2.7 and 10.6 million by 2030"
 

raspy

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Any entrepreneurs out there? Strikes me that a fleet of vans equipped to deliver a very fast charge to stranded EV ("thought I could make it to the next garage with the correct charging point" etc. etc.) may be a a good idea? Just cost you 1% of revenue for the idea! <patent pending> :)

P.S. If I had a bunch of idle money I'd be looking to invest in a couple of up and coming battery technology companies and just wait for the IPO!
@Gollom Already exists in a way doesn't it with RAC EV Boost? Gives a stranded EV driver 10 miles of range so they can get to a charging point
 

grober

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On BBC'S CLICK today - Taipei's infamous "scooter waterfall"- they are trying to replace them with exchangeable battery pack scooters. No problem getting people to wear face masks here! TAKEN THRO A LONG LENS OBVIOUSLY- BUT STILL:eek:
 
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I disagree. The Treasury will need to rethink motoring taxation so that it's fairer (regardless of whether the car used is a hybrid, BEV or a ICE car) - looking at the way the wind is blowing, I believe some form of road pricing will be introduced by 2030. Even if there are more people switching from ICE to EV, those EVs could still be causing congestion on our already congested and busy roads, especially in cities. Hence, the possibility of road pricing as the main form of motoring taxation.

The forecast that because the government will lose tax revenue from those switching from ICE to EV means that taxation on EVs will rise heavily is also a bit weird. When people quit smoking (and thus the Treasury loses tax revenue), the government doesn't tax someone more to make up for that lost cigarette duty revenue, do they?

Furthermore, whilst EV sales are likely to grow exponentially, EVs are unlikely to be a majority of vehicles on our roads by 2030. We have approx 33 million cars licenced in this country at the moment, and;

"Going forward, projections by National Grid suggest that the UK stock of EVs could reach between 2.7 and 10.6 million by 2030"
Exactly, a lot of people seem to think that we’ll all be driving EVs by 2030, which is nonsense. The thing that will drive the change is the ban, forcing us all to go electric eventually. 🤬🤬🤬 and of course, it will drive a culture change. We all drive cars these days. That will change. It will be too expensive for some, or just not practical - I don’t see EVs ever being as easy to fill up as a fossil fuelled vehicle.

what will happen to the prices of classic ICE cars?
 

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Exactly, a lot of people seem to think that we’ll all be driving EVs by 2030, which is nonsense. The thing that will drive the change is the ban, forcing us all to go electric eventually. 🤬🤬🤬 and of course, it will drive a culture change. We all drive cars these days. That will change. It will be too expensive for some, or just not practical - I don’t see EVs ever being as easy to fill up as a fossil fuelled vehicle.

what will happen to the prices of classic ICE cars?
@Dickster Well, work is underway to make EVs as easy and quick to fill up as a diesel/petrol car. The work from companies like StoreDot is impressive, with a goal of recharging an XFC battery in 5 minutes. Granted, that's not coming tomorrow, or even in 2 years time, but my point is that people around the globe are working on all sorts of emerging technologies, and technology evolves, often more rapidly than we realise. Just because something is not possible today, doesn't mean that's the case forever.

Some people are able to convert their classic ICE to EV today (although it tends to be costly) but again, there are companies working on ways to bring the cost down over time.
 
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markjay

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It's also worth keeping in mind that what we call the West is only about 20% of the world's population.

The other 80% will continue to drive ICE cars for the foreseeable future, keeping car manufacturers in business for many years to come (just as they have keeping the tobacco companies in business since the West started with anti-smoking campaigns).

And while the West is currently the largest consumer of manufactured goods by far, the rest of the world is catching-up with our cosumeristic habits.
 

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@Gollom Already exists in a way doesn't it with RAC EV Boost? Gives a stranded EV driver 10 miles of range so they can get to a charging point
Didn't know that. But I'd guess more would be needed? Just imagine getting stranded in the middle of London and the parking charge if you had to wait too long. Or the chance of your car being taken to a pound and the cost of getting it back!
 

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Didn't know that. But I'd guess more would be needed? Just imagine getting stranded in the middle of London and the parking charge if you had to wait too long. Or the chance of your car being taken to a pound and the cost of getting it back!
@Gollom If you're lucky enough for your EV to be out of charge in Westminster, and if you're stranded in a pay and display bay, then you just pay for the first 10 minutes (typically under 1 quid) to cover up to 4 hours of parking in that bay (PHEVs and EVs get that deal)

Driving a vehicle involves a level of personal responsibility too. I never let my car go below 1/4 tank, and if I'm driving long distance somewhere rural where I know the petrol stations are few and far between, then I will ensure I have more than enough fuel before I start my journey. With EVs, a lot of them will show on the satnav when plotting your route, what your estimated level of charge will be when you arrive, so if you're setting off knowing that your car will have hardly any charge left upon arrival, that's just as irresponsible as setting off for a 90 mile journey in an ICE car with no intention of filling up along the way, even though your car shows 92 miles of fuel left. Detours, traffic jams, etc - so many unexpected events mean it's wise to drive with a bit of a buffer left in terms of how much fuel you need for your journey (ICE or EV)

Let's take a look at some numbers to understand the scale of the problem when it comes to UK motorists being stranded due to running out of fuel/charge;

LV did some research in 2015 and found over 800,000 motorists ran out of fuel at the roadside in the UK that year (I couldn't find any more recent stats) - There were 36.5 million cars licenced on our roads at the end of 2015, so that's a rate of 2.2%

The AA says they have had to recover over 600 EVs that ran out of charge over the past 2 years equating to one EV a day (article is from Nov 2020) so with 164,100 EVs on our roads at Sept 2020, that's a rate of 0.22% for 1 year, based upon 1 car a day. No exact stats for the RAC or anyone else, so no way of determining the rate of ALL EVs running out of charge, but owners new to EV ownership quickly learn that they have to plan things more carefully than with an ICE car, given that public charging points are not yet 100% reliable (apart from Tesla's own network) the way petrol stations are. Or it could even be as simple as, you head out to your destination, knowing you'll have 30% charge left at your destination, and when you arrive hoping to charge up, all the EV charging points have got ICE vehicles parked in them and there is no way of determining when the owners might be back to move their cars.

With respect to the RAC, yes, they are getting more vans with the EV Boost capability. "As a result of the exclusivity agreement the RAC plans to have 200 vans equipped to boost out-of-charge EVs by the end of 2021, with a further 120 coming online in 2022 – meaning one in every five RAC patrols vans will be able to give electric vehicles an emergency roadside boost."
 

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The people of Switzerland have today rejected their government's plans for a car fuel levy and a tax on air tickets in a referendum.

The Agenda 2030 "Carbon Dioxide Law" measures to cut greenhouse gases to half their 1990 levels by 2030, using a combination of more renewables and taxes on fossil fuels were designed to help Switzerland meet targets under the Paris Agreement on climate change.

The globalists at the G7 must be fuming. About time the UK had a referendum on this as well to stop ICE vehicles being taxed until extinct.

 
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raspy

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You won’t get cheap parking in Westminster for ever.
@Dickster Correct. Nothing in life lasts forever. I'm sure the 50% surcharge they apply to pre 2015 diesels helps to make up for the shortfall from the discount offered to EV/PHEV drivers. I park regularly in Westminster, and take full advantage of the discounted parking, but the majority of cars parked each time I drive in aren't EV/PHEV.
 

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The people of Switzerland have today rejected their government's plans for a car fuel levy and a tax on air tickets in a referendum.

The Agenda 2030 "Carbon Dioxide Law" measures to cut greenhouse gases to half their 1990 levels by 2030, using a combination of more renewables and taxes on fossil fuels were designed to help Switzerland meet targets under the Paris Agreement on climate change.

The globalists at the G7 must be fuming. About time the UK had a referendum on this as well to stop ICE vehicles being taxed until extinct.


Direct democracy in action. They were concerned about post pandemic economic recovery and taking the fact that Switzerland represents only 0.1 % of world emissions into account the majority made a pragmatic decision. Not setting a great example to the world perhaps but I suspect they don't much care about that.
 

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