New petrol and diesel car sales will be 'banned from 2030'

[davymead]

I'm not unsympathetic to global warning as an issue which is real enough when presented in a rational manner. What is draining my sympathy of late is that instead of rational people like David Anttenborough who I trust, the stage is being dominated by nut cases such as insulate Britain. There is only so much worst case exaggeration and Apocalypse doom mongering I can take.

Yesterday I read a rather sad assessment of what we can do about reducing CO2. It went something like this. If I do without a car I save 2.4 tonnes of CO2 per year. If I go without a holiday flight to the US I save 1.6 tonnes, go veggie and I save 0.8 tonnes. Go without producing a child and I save 59 tonnes. You can immediately see the logical conclusion for any ardent Greenie. If we give up producing children the problem is solved, but it's also the ultimate example of tunnel vision. The fertility rate in the UK is already falling and currently around 1.6 . It needs to be 2.1 just to maintain population levels. It's only immigration that stops the population from shrinking. Should the concept of saving 59 tonnes of CO2 become widespread practice then humanity will be doomed regardless of what happens to the climate. It won't happen though, as just as the UK is only responsible for 1% of world emissions then any result of the UK citizens ceasing to bear children will have no discernible effect on the word population levels.

We really need some rational people and sanity back in the UK climate debate for me to get behind it.

Absolutely.
With COP26 Imminent, today I read the Chinese have reiterated that they will not be attending, while Scott Morrison has succumbed to pressure and will make an appearance.
Truth is at this moment in time even the Norwegians are reevaluating their reliance on fossil fuels, as creating green energy seems too expensive to sustain. No point in being ‘green’ and being uncompetitive against countries who talk the talk, but actually have no intention whatsoever of walking the walk. COP26 should be interesting.

 

[Gollom]

 

[Deleted member 166430]

May have said this before, but if I had £10K to invest medium to long term a couple of the up and coming battery tech companies must be a good punt. Personally I think we must be due something of a quantum leap in battery technology and whoever gets there first.......

The difficulty is knowing which one to invest in. My dad’s musician mate Jim asked if he wanted to help finance an idea he had for an amplifier. My dad didn’t have a clue what Jim was about so turned him down. Jim went ahead with his design, but a bit slower than he hoped because cash was short. He ended up doing quite well - Jim Marshall knew what he was doing even if my dad didn’t. His company is now valued at over £30 million. Another opportunity missed.

 

[GeeJayW]

The difficulty is knowing which one to invest in. My dad’s musician mate Jim asked if he wanted to help finance an idea he had for an amplifier. My dad didn’t have a clue what Jim was about so turned him down. Jim went ahead with his design, but a bit slower than he hoped because cash was short. He ended up doing quite well - Jim Marshall knew what he was doing even if my dad didn’t. His company is now valued at over £30 million. Another opportunity missed.

Jim did pretty well for a drummer. Lovely bloke too. The guvnor. From what I can tell, there are no longer any of the Marshall family working there, which is a shame.

 

[190]

With COP26 Imminent, today I read the Chinese have reiterated that they will not be attending,

I suspect many of us, me included, have found it easy to slag off China in any debate about CO2 emissions. China the largest emitter of greenhouse gases in the world may not be coming to COP26 and that fact does tend to label them as the bad boy of world emissions. But while they may have a long way to go it doesn't mean they are doing nothing. I was surprised to learn that they are developing a clean thorium based nuclear reactor and adding hydro, wind and solar power generation capacity on a truly massive scale. To put this into perspective, the figure of 430 gigawatts green generation capacity in the next 5 years is 5.7 times the UK's total installed generation capacity.

Nuclear reactors aren't the only technology China is investing in as a part of its effort to become carbon-neutral. The Baihetan Dam, the second-largest hydroelectric facility in the world after China's Three Gorges Dam, went online in June and has an energy-generating capacity of 16 gigawatts. The U.K.-based energy consultancy Wood Mackenzie estimates that China will add 430 gigawatts of new solar and wind power capacity in the next five years.

China to activate world's first 'clean' nuclear reactor in September

 

[Deleted member 166430]

Jim did pretty well for a drummer. Lovely bloke too. The guvnor. From what I can tell, there are no longer any of the Marshall family working there, which is a shame.

He was a lovely bloke, as was his son Terry who was just a year or so older than me and helped Jim run his shop in Hanwell, round the corner from where I lived. I spent many a happy hour in that shop, but never had a note of musical ability rub off on me. They moved to Milton Keynes at about the same time I married and moved to Ipswich. Hanwell was never the same without us

 

[Bellow]

Came across this >> https://eatechnology.com/media/iwjjxzeg/1-myelectricavenue-i2ev-projectsummaryreport.pdf

A project which wrapped up in December 2015 which researched how multiple EVs on the same street would impact the grid and trialled a method of dealing with overloads.

From it:
''It does so by instigating temporary curtailment of recharging on a rolling basis (typically, in this trial, for 15 minutes each) across the local cluster of EVs''

and:
''The results of the project’s modelling has shown that across Britain 32% of low voltage (LV) feeders (312,000 circuits) will require intervention when 40% – 70% of customers have EVs, based on 3.5 kW (16 amp) charging. Susceptible networks are typically characterised by available capacity of less than 1.5 kW per customer.''

 

[John N]

Came across this >> https://eatechnology.com/media/iwjjxzeg/1-myelectricavenue-i2ev-projectsummaryreport.pdf

A project which wrapped up in December 2015 which researched how multiple EVs on the same street would impact the grid and trialled a method of dealing with overloads.

From it:
''It does so by instigating temporary curtailment of recharging on a rolling basis (typically, in this trial, for 15 minutes each) across the local cluster of EVs''

and:
''The results of the project’s modelling has shown that across Britain 32% of low voltage (LV) feeders (312,000 circuits) will require intervention when 40% – 70% of customers have EVs, based on 3.5 kW (16 amp) charging. Susceptible networks are typically characterised by available capacity of less than 1.5 kW per customer.''

Interesting, before I read the article I was suspecting that the Control of the Recharging would have been via "Smart Meter" but seeing that its the ESPRIT that Controls basically the "Shut Off" of Charging your EV/Hybrid due to "Overuse" across the Grid, it wouldn't be long before EV Owners having got up ready to travel to work found that the Car didn't Charge fully overnight would either Opt out of the ESPRIT System OR (most likely) Bypass the System entirely!

 

[Bellow]

Interesting, before I read the article I was suspecting that the Control of the Recharging would have been via "Smart Meter" but seeing that its the ESPRIT that Controls basically the "Shut Off" of Charging your EV/Hybrid due to "Overuse" across the Grid, it wouldn't be long before EV Owners having got up ready to travel to work found that the Car didn't Charge fully overnight would either Opt out of the ESPRIT System OR (most likely) Bypass the System entirely!

As far as I can make out the Esprit system was but one system and merely being trialled and six years ago at that. What ultimately prevails (one or more solutions?) I'll wager it/they will be hack proof. The main takeaway from the article for me was that reducing supply rather than complete upgrading of the distribution network is the likely 'solution' adopted to cope with increasing demand. How long it can survive before charging times become unacceptably lengthy is another question to be answered.
Realistic I think to assume that the claim that the distribution network is already up to the task is either utter BS or predicated on throttling supply. Which makes a mockery of EV manufacturers claims of being able to recharge from xx% to xx% in xx hrs. xx mins. Already the thought occurs to me that recharging will succumb to the subscription model - tiered into Gold, Silver, Bronze and pauper offerings. Gold gets priority, the rest on a sliding scale all the way to 'you might want to consider taking the bus to work tomorrow'.

 

[John N]

As far as I can make out the Esprit system was but one system and merely being trialled and six years ago at that. What ultimately prevails (one or more solutions?) I'll wager it/they will be hack proof. The main takeaway from the article for me was that reducing supply rather than complete upgrading of the distribution network is the likely 'solution' adopted to cope with increasing demand. How long it can survive before charging times become unacceptably lengthy is another question to be answered.
Realistic I think to assume that the claim that the distribution network is already up to the task is either utter BS or predicated on throttling supply. Which makes a mockery of EV manufacturers claims of being able to recharge from xx% to xx% in xx hrs. xx mins. Already the thought occurs to me that recharging will succumb to the subscription model - tiered into Gold, Silver, Bronze and pauper offerings. Gold gets priority, the rest on a sliding scale all the way to 'you might want to consider taking the bus to work tomorrow'.

Slight Thread Hijack:

Hack Proof! I used to do long cycling trips around Peterborough, one day in a rather "Salubrious Area" I was on a narrow cycle path with lamp posts to my right and large houses to my left, each lamp post the was a slight but annoying "Bump" in the Tarmac! Stopped to investigate and soon discovered the cause! There was a Cable buried under the Tarmac connected to every lamp post and powering up "Whatever" in every garden along the Path!

I do agree with the "Gold, Silver, Bronze and pauper offerings" and wonder when the EV App will be Published, "Dear Boss, my car wasn't charged over night, due to big brother intervention so I won't be in today"

 

[Gollom]

As far as I can make out the Esprit system was but one system and merely being trialled and six years ago at that. What ultimately prevails (one or more solutions?) I'll wager it/they will be hack proof. The main takeaway from the article for me was that reducing supply rather than complete upgrading of the distribution network is the likely 'solution' adopted to cope with increasing demand. How long it can survive before charging times become unacceptably lengthy is another question to be answered.
Realistic I think to assume that the claim that the distribution network is already up to the task is either utter BS or predicated on throttling supply. Which makes a mockery of EV manufacturers claims of being able to recharge from xx% to xx% in xx hrs. xx mins. Already the thought occurs to me that recharging will succumb to the subscription model - tiered into Gold, Silver, Bronze and pauper offerings. Gold gets priority, the rest on a sliding scale all the way to 'you might want to consider taking the bus to work tomorrow'.

How will the fact that people are being pushed toward heat pumps (which of course run on electricity) impact?

 

[Bellow]

I do agree with the "Gold, Silver, Bronze and pauper offerings" and wonder when the EV App will be Published, "Dear Boss, my car wasn't charged over night, due to big brother intervention so I won't be in today"

The combination of the unpredictability of pauper tariff combined with the unpredictable working hours of zero hours contracts should be interesting...

 

[markjay]

I think it all points back to what I suggested was the fallacy of EVs... they are great, and they will prevent an untold number of illnesses and early deaths in city centres, BUT we must have fewer cars, and drive less. The idea that by having EVs we can maintain the same level of car ownership and usage is bonkers, to my mind.

 

[Dryce]

I think it all points back to what I suggested was the fallacy of EVs... they are great, and they will prevent an untold number of illnesses and early deaths in city centres, BUT we must have fewer cars, and drive less. The idea that by having EVs we can maintain the same level of car ownership and usage is bonkers, to my mind.

Well one might say why go the trouble of forcing people down the current EV route - tackle the issue of reducing vehicle ownership and usage.

My view is it would have been better to avoid pushing consumers towards large EVs and encourage suburban and urban households to switch a proportion of vehicle ownership and use over to the smaller quadricycle types.

 

[Bellow]

BUT we must have fewer cars, and drive less. The idea that by having EVs we can maintain the same level of car ownership and usage is bonkers, to my mind.

Yes, I can see where it's heading. Like this but for the smoking chimney - unless it's from a wood burning stove...

 

[markjay]

Yes, I can see where it's heading. Like this but for the smoking chimney - unless it's from a wood burning stove...

Anything wrong with walking, or using public transport, for those who are able to do so?

 

[markjay]

Well one might say why go the trouble of forcing people down the current EV route - tackle the issue of reducing vehicle ownership and usage.

My view is it would have been better to avoid pushing consumers towards large EVs and encourage suburban and urban households to switch a proportion of vehicle ownership and use over to the smaller quadricycle types.

Agreed. While I think that replacing ICE with EVs is a great idea, it should be seen as only a very small element in a much larger plan.

And, I already said that I don't understand why my EV is exempt from the London Congestion Charge - it adds to the congestion in London just like any other car, however powered.

Encouraging people to replace ICE cars with EVs is sensible; Encouraging them to use their EVs more than they would have used their ICE car, is not.

 

[Bellow]

Anything wrong with walking, or using public transport, for those who are able to do so?

Try it - and report your findings.

 

[markjay]

Try it - and report your findings.

I do that all the time. It's great. But I do appreciate that not everyone can use walking or public transport as a method of personal mobility. I am not suggesting banning driving altogether, just not encouraging it where it can be avoided.

 

[m80]

I do that all the time. It's great. But I do appreciate that not everyone can use walking or public transport as a method of personal mobility. I am not suggesting banning driving altogether, just not encouraging it where it can be avoided.

With a London adress I might suggest some advantages.

Not rural.
Far superior public transport system's'.
Warm and dry climate, by comparison.
Cleaner air than many cities as the EV revolution takes a stronger hold and exports the pollution.
Likely healthier to go by foot as the running from the knife thugs is good exercise.