New petrol and diesel car sales will be 'banned from 2030'

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Regardless... if change is coming, it's time to embrace it, no?

For some reason this make me think of the Necromongers in Chronicles of Riddick telling the people that they just conquered that they have to convert.

I think the issue is that a poorly thought out *enforced* change is coming and there is no choice but to embrace.
 
Here's a list that I have seen around, which might be most options available. The French, Germans and Asian makes seem to be all over it, the UK makes seem to be late to the party (except Vauxhall):
Citroen DS3-e
Fiat 500e
Honda E
Hyundai Kona
Kia e-Niro
Mazda MX-30
MG5 EV
MG ZS EV
Peugeot e-208
Renault Zoe
Seat e-Mii
Skoda Citigo-e
Smart EQ
Vauxhall e-Corsa
VW e-UP
VW e-Golf
VW ID3
Thanks - much more comprehensive than I'd expected!
I am seeing some of those up here - recognising them by their grill-less fronts. They are scooting past on a 60mph A-road so hard to identify models and if EV even as tyre noise is prevalent but it seems to be the small/mid crossover/SUV segment that is proliferating - Kias and Hyundais especially with a smattering of MGs I think.
What is an issue, though, is that all of these are all priced in the £15-30k range, so they are not competitive with ICE models in the same (or similar) ranges. That doesn't seem to be stopping people buying them, though, presumably because maintenance and fuelling costs even out the whole-life cost.
Hard to know the showroom spiel that is winning them over - or maybe the test drive does the heavy lifting but for sure servicing requirements are minimal. All my mate has to have done to his Tesla over the first two years is a coolant change.
 
For some reason this make me think of the Necromongers in Chronicles of Riddick telling the people that they just conquered that they have to convert.

I think the issue is that a poorly thought out *enforced* change is coming and there is no choice but to embrace.
I'm not so convinced of that. If the public mood is for eschewing rather than embracing all it takes is a new party to gain traction on that single issue and either force the government's hand or become the new government and overturn the legislation. Who would build ICE cars isn't obvious but downstream effects are easily ignored in a febrile general election. Package in all the other changes that people don't want to make (diet, heat pumps, holidays abroad, internet streaming, etc, etc) and the who makes the cars question is conveniently swamped.
 
The electricity supply infrastructure will need to be more robust than this. What on earth are we doing being so financially reliant on a number of French and other European interconnectors.

UK power prices soar after key cable hit by blaze

In the overall scheme of things the interconnect with France should be about pricing rather than supply security.

When it was setup we had a huge surplus of power generation in the UK and a portfolio of oil/gas, coal. nuclear, and some hydro/renewables.

We could buy power from France when it made sense

The French connector only has the capacity of a single large coal power station - so it should be about convenience and price optimisation rather than contingency.

The problem now is that we don't have a huge surplus of traditional power generation and we have a massive increase in wind (unreliable) renewables.

The French connector is now a piece of critical infrastructure.

I'm wonfering if the UK media could perhaps communicate this whole supply gap situation a bit better by augmenting their official unit of electricity consumption with a new unit the 'EV' in addition to the 'Home'. And maybe they might be persuaded to recalibrate the 'Home' to a unit that incorporates electric heating.
 
What is an issue, though, is that all of these are all priced in the £15-30k range, so they are not competitive with ICE models in the same (or similar) ranges. That doesn't seem to be stopping people buying them, though, presumably because maintenance and fuelling costs even out the whole-life cost.

There are not many of the poxier models about. And it's also worth bearing in mind that their actual pricing in the market is supported by grants.

In the last few years I have tried a couple of times to get older relatives living in outlying areas to buy electric. Their usage patterns in terms of mileage suit the cheaper vehicles - and the facility to charge at home when there is no filling station in their village is actually an advantage in terms of time and convenience. But they are too conservative.

It doesn't help with anything technical that manufacturers tend to target younger customers.
 
It doesn't help with anything technical that manufacturers tend to target younger customers.
How much of that is due to 'manufacturers' being more finance orientated and older people will more likely be in a position (and prefer) to buy outright where the young will almost inevitably need finance?
 
I'm not so convinced of that. If the public mood is for eschewing rather than embracing all it takes is a new party to gain traction on that single issue and either force the government's hand or become the new government and overturn the legislation.

In principle ....

.... But in practice politics and the electrorate don't seem to work that way.

"All it takes is for a new party to gain traction" just doesn't happen.
 
In principle ....

.... But in practice politics and the electrorate don't seem to work that way.

"All it takes is for a new party to gain traction" just doesn't happen.
Forgotten Farage?
 
How much of that is due to 'manufacturers' being more finance orientated and older people will more likely be in a position (and prefer) to buy outright where the young will almost inevitably need finance?

I think it's just a basic combination of prejudice and 'accepted wisdom'.
 
How much of that is due to 'manufacturers' being more finance orientated and older people will more likely be in a position (and prefer) to buy outright where the young will almost inevitably need finance?

My own experience is that wealthy people are more likely to buy on finance, because they understand the rationale behind not having your capital tied-up in depreciating assets. In fact, most wealthy people I know are heavy users of finance both personally and via the business. These are people that can make money grow via investment well above the APR that they will be saving by buying outright. They can then use assets as security for finance, without having to liquidate them to buy outright.

It's often the poor people who either haven't got the credit rating or the income to service the loan, and are therefore barred from access to finance and are forced to make-do with old bangers bought for cash.

In between there are obviously ordinary working people who simply find finance as a useful mean for access to cars, housing, furniture, etc.

I would argue that in the majority of circumstances it makes little financial sense to buy an expensive new car for cash, even for those who can afford to do do.
 
Here's a list that I have seen around, which might be most options available. The French, Germans and Asian makes seem to be all over it, the UK makes seem to be late to the party (except Vauxhall):
Citroen DS3-e
Fiat 500e
Honda E
Hyundai Kona
Kia e-Niro
Mazda MX-30
MG5 EV
MG ZS EV
Peugeot e-208
Renault Zoe
Seat e-Mii
Skoda Citigo-e
Smart EQ
Vauxhall e-Corsa
VW e-UP
VW e-Golf
VW ID3

What is an issue, though, is that all of these are all priced in the £15-30k range, so they are not competitive with ICE models in the same (or similar) ranges. That doesn't seem to be stopping people buying them, though, presumably because maintenance and fuelling costs even out the whole-life cost.


Also, the entry-level variant of the ID.4 isn't sub-30k, but it's still below £35k and qualifies for the government EV grant .

The overall cost will balance-out due to objective elements such as lower annual servicing costs (no engine and transmission, no complex EU6 emissions systems, etc), and also lower brakes wear due to regenerative braking.

But, more crucially, at current there are artificial elements that significantly reduce the cost of ownership of EVs compared to ICE cars: no duty on electricity, no VED, and in London also free residents parking permit, no Congestion Charge and near-free pay-and-display parking.

I would go further and say that at current, as long as you have access to the charging network, a new EV will in fact be cheaper overall than a comparable new ICE car. But we have to keep in mind that, again, this is due to government incentives, which, once removed, will no longer play a part.
 
Just hope they address single point of failures - 1GW must be a fair percentage of the UK's total capacity? And demand is only going to go one way... Discuss!

Half of its capacity, or one gigawatt (GW) of power, is expected to remain unavailable until late March 2022.
A 1GW power output is about 2% of the UK's typical peak, or one large power station's worth. Loss of heavy industry and general consumption efficiencies mean that UK electricity demand has fallen quite a lot lately, but that is presumably expected to increase from here due to electrification.
 
How much of that is due to 'manufacturers' being more finance orientated and older people will more likely be in a position (and prefer) to buy outright where the young will almost inevitably need finance?
IME, you want to buy these things on finance at the moment, let someone else take the risk. The used market still does not trust the longevity of the batteries enough, and the battery rental model (for those manufacturers that still use it) does not always translate well to the 2nd/3rd/4th owner.

The GMFV for my Zoe after 3 years was £6k (on a £20k+ list price - pianos pushed off a cliff don't drop that fast), and it wasn't even worth that. When I phoned up RCI to hand it back, they offered it to me at £4k to keep it - they were basically giving them away because they knew the 2nd hand market was limited to non-existent.
 
IRRC the VW e-UP is the only version in the VAG stable still on sale in the UK SEAT and SKODA versions nla DESPITE UNPRECEDENTED DEMAND ?
 
Probably a numpty question (not a stupid one - there is no such thing)

No new ICE after 2030 does not I presume apply globally. So what is to stop someone buying a new ICE from another country? OK, won't be from a major, but there must be a number of smaller manufacturers who could carve a niche?

As I am typing, the words "import levy" spring to mind! But still a question worth asking
 

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