NEW TAX RULES and EV SALES

[rf065]

You don't hear many complaints from EV owners when they have another car to fall back on, but for anyone who only owns one EV and has no alternative there are plenty stories like this one......................https://www.autoevolution.com/news/porsche-taycan-owner-complains-about-serious-charging-network-issues-in-the-uk-152276.html

I've got a hunch that petrol/diesels cars will be selling like hot cakes in the last year before they are banned.

 

[190]

Can you provide a link to an instance when the Government have suggested that an EV can do everything?

It’s a genuine question, because I have never seen a suggestion that EVs can do everything, neither explicit or implied.

They wouldn't be explicit but I would have thought that banning IC cars implies that EV's will be a complete substitute in all circumstances which they are not - yet.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

They wouldn't be explicit but I would have thought that banning IC cars implies that EV's will be a complete substitute in all circumstances which they are not - yet.

But you’re making observations based upon EVs and charging infrastructure technology in 2020 and not 2030, or 2035.

Hybrids will continue to be sold until 2035, so new cars with an ICE engine on board will continue to be sold for 14 years.

Why would the Govenmeng make any statements about what EVs might or might not be capable of in 14 years time?

 

[SW18]

Any objectivity disappears with #11. Skilfully undermined his own argument.

I felt that the objectivity went at #2. After all, there’s all kinda of stuff you can’t buy in a democracy for sensible reasons.

 

[Dryce]

Can you provide a link to an instance when the Government have suggested that an EV can do everything?

I think the overlap here is between your statement about expectaion and the way that the government is behaving through their ban.

The ban in itself makes a pretty strong statement - new EVs by 2030 are going to have to do everything or the government needs to start setting expectations. At the moment it's not looking good for either EV capability of government honesty.

Reality check. They probably won't. And along the way we'll have to address the issue of LGVs and delivery vehicles and possibly taxis.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I think the overlap here is between your statement about expectaion and the way that the government is behaving through their ban.

The ban in itself makes a pretty strong statement - new EVs by 2030 are going to have to do everything or the government needs to start setting expectations. At the moment it's not looking good for either EV capability of government honesty.

Reality check. They probably won't. And along the way we'll have to address the issue of LGVs and delivery vehicles and possibly taxis.

I believe that at this stage the ban applies to cars and vans. Cars and vans with ICE on board will continue to 2035 in hybrid form.

 

[Dryce]

I believe that at this stage the ban applies to cars and vans. Cars and vans with ICE on board will continue to 2035 in hybrid form.

Well as long as fuel and maintenance are viable it may well be that pre-2030 vehicles may well continue for a long time. Cuba maybe serves as an example.

I'm taking a brutal view on this. EVs for the majority just isn't working on merit right now. It's that simple. The legislation for 2030 is being treated as if it was satisfying a government goal - wouldn't be needed if EVs were likely to make sense (economically and practically) by 2030.

 

[Gazwould]

UK's first all-electric car charging forecourt opens in Essex | Electric, hybrid and low-emission cars | The Guardian

Clean energy firm Gridserve has plans for more than 100 such sites over next five years

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Tonygw]

Electric Vehicles have been around for 100 years, in that 100 years they haven't gone mainstream or even become that popular.
I still think the same is true today. Maybe in another 100 years they might??

 

[190]

Well as long as fuel and maintenance are viable it may well be that pre-2030 vehicles may well continue for a long time. Cuba maybe serves as an example.

If only we had the same weather and lack of salt as Cuba I'd happily keep my cars for a very long time. I've done it once with a 190e kept until it was 26 years old and in the end it was a battle with rust when used as an every day car. Sunny day classics should have the capability to last for ever though.

 

[SW18]

There are sure to be people who keep their old cars for years past 2030, but the majority who unthinkingly buy new cars will switch to electric, I would imagine. If a minority keep running their older cars it won’t make much difference to the overall aim of reducing local pollution - just as a handful of pre-1980 cars don’t today.

 

[glojo]

But you’re making observations based upon EVs and charging infrastructure technology in 2020 and not 2030, or 2035.

Hybrids will continue to be sold until 2035, so new cars with an ICE engine on board will continue to be sold for 14 years.

Why would the Govenmeng make any statements about what EVs might or might not be capable of in 14 years time?

I reading all this bickering with great interest. Were EV's designed to take polluting ice vehicles off our roads?

I accept that at the time, the diesel and perhaps petrol engines were a mild source of pollution, but when we look at the EU6 compliant I>, how does that compare to the pollution being made when producing the EV

Bobby quite rightly talks about the years 2030, or 2035 and correctly states that EVs will have hopefully improved by then.

Are we all perhaps guilty of not thinking or expecting the ICE EU compliant vehicles will have also taken significant steps to reducing even further their pollution? Think back a few years and look at the muck coming out of petrol-powered cars when we had the choke pulled out for those first very cold miles. Oh how times have changed.

Is the diesel engine being picked on either fairly or unfairly? Is the EU6 diesel approximately as clean as its opposite petrol engine?

Until the days of where everyone can charge their EV from home arrive, will it be the answer to all the Worlds problems?
It's alright for those of us that have this luxury but how do we expect those that live in houses where this is not an option or even worse those that live in countries where charge points will never be available?

I am perhaps slightly biased after listening to someone on our local radio vehemently complaining about their new electric Audi taking 9 hrs for what was usually a 6 hour journey. Definitely not for me but respect to those that own these vehicles

 

[PhantomF4]

But you’re making observations based upon EVs and charging infrastructure technology in 2020 and not 2030, or 2035.

Hybrids will continue to be sold until 2035, so new cars with an ICE engine on board will continue to be sold for 14 years.

Why would the Govenmeng make any statements about what EVs might or might not be capable of in 14 years time?

speaking of technological progress, last week I sent my faithful old Pentium powered computer to be recycled as the iPad I’m typing this on is far faster, smaller, has 20x more storage and is fully portable.

Who would have imagined tablets or smartphones would be coming in the near future, back in the time my Pentium desktop was cutting edge technology?

 

[Benzowner]

speaking of technological progress, last week I sent my faithful old Pentium powered computer to be recycled as the iPad I’m typing this on is far faster, smaller, has 20x more storage and is fully portable.

Who would have imagined tablets or smartphones would be coming in the near future, back in the time my Pentium desktop was cutting edge technology?

Not really fair, it is mostly the components that have got smaller, AA rechargeable batteries are still the same size and AA non rechargeable and AAA's are not used as often even though they are smaller.

 

[PhantomF4]

Not really fair, it is mostly the components that have got smaller, AA rechargeable batteries are still the same size and AA non rechargeable and AAA's are not used as often even though they are smaller.

Point taken, but I was simply trying to show how fast technology is capable of advancing.
Maybe a better comparison may have been car phones to smartphones.

The first mobile phone call was made in 1973 on a device weighing in at over 4lbs. In the 80s yuppies were loving their brick phones that were less than half as heavy and today’s smartphone weigh a fraction of that whilst offering a mind boggling array of features.

Just as NiCads were replaced by Li-ion who’s to say that car power units won’t evolve to need smaller battery packs or that batteries won’t be developed to be smaller or to produce more power?

 

[Doodle]

Where's the Doc when you need him?

 

[glojo]

Point taken, but I was simply trying to show how fast technology is capable of advancing.
Maybe a better comparison may have been car phones to smartphones.

The first mobile phone call was made in 1973 on a device weighing in at over 4lbs. In the 80s yuppies were loving their brick phones that were less than half as heavy and today’s smartphone weigh a fraction of that whilst offering a mind boggling array of features.

Just as NiCads were replaced by Li-ion who’s to say that car power units won’t evolve to need smaller battery packs or that batteries won’t be developed to be smaller or to produce more power?

I still think you have made a fair point. From what I have read, the batteries used in EV cars will soon be getting smaller and the range will greatly be increased. Will that make today's EV cars obsolete? Who will want to buy them?

I still however feel that until we can very conveniently charge our cars at our home address, there will be a problem. Folks that are saying I have an EV
and I'm alright Jack, are not helping their cause.

 

[SW18]

Not really fair, it is mostly the components that have got smaller, AA rechargeable batteries are still the same size and AA non rechargeable and AAA's are not used as often even though they are smaller.

Actually AA batteries are mostly the same size because it's inconvenient to change the standard size when many devices still need batteries of that size. There is lots of new tech to package better power into the same size unit, e.g.:

 

[Deleted member 126969]

There seems to be a fundamental assumption being made, namely, that we carry on doing exactly as we have done, whatever we want, whenever we want, so EVs are therefore no good. There’s plenty of evidence to support the idea that such behaviour isn’t really sustainable. Since none of us want to curb our habits, maybe this is just one route of many to making us?

My personal driving needs would be perfectly well served by pretty much any EV currently on the market, and as I own a driveway, charging at home isn’t a problem either, but I do of course appreciate that this is a far from universal situation and there are many for whom there will be problems with the current offerings.

Re the reduction in battery capacity needed due to future powertrain improvements, not much room for improvement there as they are already in the 90%+ efficiency bracket. Some gains to be had, certainly, but Tesla reckon 8-10% improvement in drivetrain equates to 15-18% range improvement so I’m sure they’ll be working on it given just how important having a large range number appears to be to most buyers.

 

[rf065]

There seems to be a fundamental assumption being made, namely, that we carry on doing exactly as we have done, whatever we want, whenever we want, so EVs are therefore no good. There’s plenty of evidence to support the idea that such behaviour isn’t really sustainable. Since none of us want to curb our habits, maybe this is just one route of many to making us?

I agree, but rather than making us stop travelling long distances, I suspect many people will fly instead, not really a solution though is it?