New Toy Collected

[Doodle]

The ST1300 has mirrors mounted lower than the handlebars that are very effective as “cat’s whiskers” when judging narrow gaps: if the mirrors will go through, then so will the rest of the bike. By contrast, the K1600’s mirrors are mounted on stalks and are above the ’bars and although the same principle of “if the mirrors fit the gap, then so will the rest of the bike” applies, it made it a little more difficult to judge the tighter gaps. On the subject of the bike’s width, I didn’t put a tape across it, but visually it looks a little wider than the Pan and the panniers are certainly slightly higher in relation to the seat which Angie found made the bike more difficult to get on and off.

This something the ST13, and the 11 before it, have been very good at. Recent touring bikes are sporting much wider rear tyres, through necessity or fashion, which makes it much harder to tuck the panniers in and therefore the width as a whole grows which hinders filtering. Unfortunately my friend's hand may be forced soon, his ST11 doesn't have much life left in it (it was getting on when I sold it to him 9 years ago!) but nothing else is quite fitting the bill.

 

[st13phil]

Unfortunately my friend's hand may be forced soon, his ST11 doesn't have much life left in it (it was getting on when I sold it to him 9 years ago!) but nothing else is quite fitting the bill.

I understand his dilemma. Having ridden both 1100's and 1300's for many thousands of miles I can attest to what a good package they both are. If he wants another Pan, PM me as I still have contacts in the Owners' Club and good ones still come up every now and then.

 

[Mactech]

Excellent write up again Phil. Thanks! You are much more experienced than me in 2-wheel European travel, but I have been to Spa on various bikes ranging from a 'Blade to a KT1300 BMW. I had shoulder ache on the 'Blade and a pain in the seat on the BMW. There is a happy medium!
Your comments on riding position and aerodynamics are spot on. My VFR1200 is 'Sports/Tourer' although how anything at 270kgs can be 'sports' is lost on me. To make the bike a real tourer I have had add some modifications to allow me to still comfortably in a still air bubble.
The low bars were changed for some LSL 'super bike' ones which allow me to sit with zero tension in the arms at motorway speed. The bike already had a Givi tall screen on, but now I am sitting a little taller, my helmet was in slightly turbulent air. The no cost solution was a redundant Shoei visor positioned to create a second laminar flow off the top edge of the screen and calm air now around my helmet.
Whilst the new bars had got me into a very comfortable touring position, they attracted some V4 Honda vibes (!), but high mass bars ends have cured 90% of that.

I'm sure my bike is no match for the luxury of the 6 cyl BMW, but it still allows me to regulary cover 300 mile plus trips in a day and is so much quicker than a car will ever be.
Not because I travel at wildly illegal speeds, but because bikes simply do not recognise traffic.
On a journey I do fairly often from the north west to the Home Counties, the bike can be up to 1/2 hour quicker....but as you rightly say, will never compare to the comfort of our Mercedes cars.

 

[st13phil]

My VFR1200 is 'Sports/Tourer' although how anything at 270kgs can be 'sports' is lost on me. To make the bike a real tourer I have had add some modifications to allow me to still comfortably in a still air bubble.
The low bars were changed for some LSL 'super bike' ones which allow me to sit with zero tension in the arms at motorway speed. The bike already had a Givi tall screen on, but now I am sitting a little taller, my helmet was in slightly turbulent air. The no cost solution was a redundant Shoei visor positioned to create a second laminar flow off the top edge of the screen and calm air now around my helmet.
Whilst the new bars had got me into a very comfortable touring position, they attracted some V4 Honda vibes (!), but high mass bars ends have cured 90% of that.

A sensible collection of mod's there to make the bike more "distance friendly"

I remember lots of potential owners of the VFR1200 at launch baulking at the relatively small tank capacity, and thus the limited range. Honda's response? "Our research shows that most riders want to stop after no more than 90 minutes riding, so it's perfect for that". No, when touring the enemy of progress is time spent stopped! Such a shame that they made stupid design decisions that hobbled what should have been a great all-rounder bike, but perhaps that goes some way to explaining Honda's abject failure in that section of the market?

 

[Mactech]

Whilst I don't suffer range anxiety, it would be good to have the option of a little more range. I can get up to 180 miles, about 3 hours on anything but 100% motorway run, and I'm ready to 'stretch my legs' by that stage.
We both know that Honda can make brilliant motorcycles, but occasionally I think it's a culture thing that makes them drop the ball. You saw an example with the V4 vibes.

We have have just seen Toyota win it's 2nd Le Mans against not the toughest opposition in the world, but they have been trying a long time for that victories.
In the early 90's I was running the technical side of their Le Mans effort from Norfolk. Tony Southgate designed them a great car and they said they would do the engine and gearbox. The 3.5 ltr V10 was great and was being eyed up for F1, but then they insisted on building their own transmission. Heading up the project was the head of manual transmissions worldwide, and a big cheese at Toyota, but had never designed a racing 'box!
The gearbox was within the wheelbase but way behind modern racing transmissions. We finished 2nd in '92 but the gearbox was going to need major work. Racing designer John Barnard was at that time seting up an F1design facility in Norfolk, hoping to lure Toyota and their V10 into F1.
He offered to take a look at the 'box and gave it a right rubbishing as our head of Toyota manual transmissions seethed! At that level of management, they are not too good at taking constructive criticism......as you have witnessed.
We never got our British designed gearbox, Toyota took a good few more years prior to entering F1 and it took them another 26 years to move up to the top step at Le Mans.
Just sometimes the decisions seem perfectly logical to Japanese culture, but unfathomable to the Western World!

 

[st13phil]

After just over 2½ years, I thought this thread would be worth an update.

After the fun of 2019's tours, the lockdowns of 2020 put paid to any foreign soil trips - and any trips at all for much of the year - so all we did on the bike were a few day's out while watching the thing depreciate.

The early part of 2021 wasn't much better, but at the end of August we managed to have a few days based in Chester with some friends, riding around some of the picturesque bits of Wales which was a pleasant relief to the cabin fever we'd all been suffering.

I'd had to cancel our planned trip to Italy for the second year running and really couldn't face having to deal with the potential for last-minute cancellations by hotels subjected to staff shortages or new restrictions, so took the easy way out and booked on an organised motorcycle tour of the West Coast of Scotland and the Cairngorms in early September. Fortunately the weather gods smiled on us and we only had one wet day on the 9-day, 2100-mile, tour and a few days of sunshine too. The organisers had picked some great routes and lovely hotels, the group was small (just seven bikes) and there were still face-mask restrictions in force in Scotland that had been relaxed in England, but best of all we had FUN. All in all it was great to be able to get away and use the K1600 for its intended purpose.

And so it was that at the beginning of October, with the weather still good, that we packed our luggage in the bike and set off from home to spend a few days with friends in Yorkshire. Except we didn’t make it.

Rather than taking the boring A43 / M1 / M18 / M62 route, I’d plotted a pleasant cross-country ride via Banbury, Southam, Rugby, a short section of the M1 to get past Leicester, then pick up the A46 and A614. After filling up with fuel we set off and were enjoying a lovely “no pressure” ride through the countryside. After all, we were under no time constraints and what traffic there was was moving at a reasonable pace. There was a bit of a hold-up for roadworks at Dunchurch, but after that we traversed Rugby and continued on our way to join the M1 north at J20. We entered the roundabout over J1 of the M6, following a small hatchback some way ahead of us, and as we continued around the roundabout closed up on it as it almost came to stop in front of us before pulling away again. Angie joked over the intercom that, “that’s the sort of thing my dad would have done” (he’s long since passed on, but Angie has told me stories of how bad a driver he was in his DAF 33). We followed it at a safe distance, waiting for it to slow or stop again for no reason, but it gently accelerated to around 30mph and took the exit onto the A426 in the second lane.

This is a fairly standard “two lanes round the roundabout and exit, merging into one lane” situation and by now the small hatchback ahead had signalled its intention to move into the left hand lane, started to do so and then realised there was a van on its inside. The car slowed, the van slowed to let it in ahead of it, the car slowed further, the van stopped, the car stopped, and I was now at walking speed a few feet behind and to the right of the offside rear quarter of the car. With the car signalling left, pointing towards the left hand lane which its nose was now in, and at least ½ the right hand lane I was in clear to the right of the car I decided to overtake. My “escape plan” should he have moved off and returned to the lane he had almost exited was to use the ghost island to my right which was wide and clear. What I hadn’t anticipated is that without warning or signal, he rapidly turned right across my path to make a U-turn across the ghost island in the centre of the road. Despite my speed being low (<25mph) and braking hard, I was almost level with him when he started the turn and there was no chance I could avoid him. Although it was a low impact speed (probably no more than 15mph), the damage to the bike was unbelievably extensive. Both myself and Angie on the pillion seat were thrown off the bike and I was briefly unconscious. My last memory of the event was the start of impact; my next was of laying on my back in the middle of the road with a Police officer cradling my head.

The emergency services who attended were great. Angie had asked the van driver to call for them and the bike’s Emergency E-Call system had also activated, so I’m not sure which of the calls they actually responded to, but prior to the response police officers arriving, by chance a patrol car was passing and they stopped to assist. Although I have no recollection, Angie tells me that I was out cold for about four or five minutes (she’s threatened me “never do that to me again!”), but fortunately that’s had no lasting consequences. We were scooped up by paramedics and taken to the local hospital to be checked over where we were quickly pronounced OK and discharged, with the bike being picked up by Warwickshire Police's recovery contractor. Luckily, Angie suffered only bruising to her left hip and hand and fully recovered within a week or so. I took quite a hit to the left side of my ribs and on my back beneath my left shoulder blade. Anyone who has ever injured their ribs will know how painful it is and how long it takes to recover, and while I’m much better three months later, it can still be a bit uncomfortable if I lay on my side.

As well as the damage to the bike, our riding gear suffered too. Both our helmets suffered impact damage and my jacket suffered abrasion damage too. I never ride without wearing appropriate gear but in more than 45 years of riding this is the first time I actually needed it, and fortunately it acquitted itself well.

In terms of damage to the bike, the list was extensive. The impact was strong enough to break the front wheel and while unconfirmed, my dealer suspected front suspension damage as a result and therefore included the front fork, upper and lower suspension arms and joints in the estimate. The bike went over on its left side and momentum meant that despite being fitted with engine bars, it went over far enough to bust the mirror out of the fairing and damage every panel on the left-hand side of the bike from top to bottom. The headlamp and screen were damaged, as was the left-hand silencer and left front calliper and disc. The repair estimate was high enough to see a 30-month old bike written off.

This is what the bike looked like:

Other than the busted front wheel, most of the damage looks superficial, but parts prices are astronomical. How about best part of £1.3k for the entire headlamp assembly as the scratched lens can't be replaced as a stand-alone item? Or £800 for the left-hand silencer? In total the repair estimate was a shade under £12k.

Here's my helmet that hit the road:

And the jacket that saved my skin:

While I had no dash-cam footage, the van driver provided a witness statement to both the Police and the Insurance companies that corroborated my account of the event and just before Christmas the the car driver's insurance company admitted full liability. I also had Replacement Vehicle GAP insurance on the bike, and my own insurance policy included cover for the clothing. I'm just waiting for my claim for uninsured losses and personal injury to be resolved, but both helmets and my jacket have been replaced already and I have a replacement bike on order due for delivery in March.

Just goes to show that however much experience you have and however you plan your own riding, there’s a clown somewhere who will do something absolutely idiotic in front of you.

 

[ringway]

Ouch!

At least you both lived to tell the tale.

As you say, not your fault, but the carelessness of another road user which is always a risk.

I was hoping you would say you had called it a day on the bike, but I suppose there is risk wherever we go.

Good luck with the new machine, Phil.

 

[st13phil]

I was hoping you would say you had called it a day on the bike, but I suppose there is risk wherever we go.

One of our friends asked if I was considering packing up riding as a result of the incident. My response was “Would you stop going out of your house if a piece of meteorite landed near your feet?”. That’s how I view it: a totally freak event that’s never likely to repeat.

Good luck with the new machine, Phil.

Thanks Paul

 

[Nicebutdim]

Glad you’re both OK. Could have been much worse. In some ways you were lucky.

Will you stick with the K1600 when you replace it?

 

[st13phil]

Will you stick with the K1600 when you replace it?

Yup. This is what I have on order (without the Akropovic pipes):

 

[Nicebutdim]

Very attractive. lovely colour scheme. I nearly bought one last year. I was torn between another R1200RT (the best all round bike ive ever owned) the K1600, the Yamaha FJR1300, and the Kawasaki GTR1400. The GTR won but only because it turned up at the right time and price when the other models were scarce.

The GTR is a stop gap so i still haven’t ruled out the big K.

 

[Bellow]

Proper pisser. At least you two suffered no lasting injuries.
(Broken ribs - f*****g agony!)

 

[st13phil]

I was torn between another R1200RT (the best all round bike ive ever owned) the K1600, the Yamaha FJR1300, and the Kawasaki GTR1400.

The K1600 is the most extraordinary bike I’ve ridden. It’s absolutely turbine smooth, howls like nothing else when you wind it on and has equipment that you never knew you needed. As long as you respect it’s weight and size it can be hustled along at speeds you wouldn’t think possible and it’s absolutely the best long-distance machine ever.

The downsides are that it’s very heavy and service and maintenance is expensive. Tyres are done (front and rear) in 4-5k miles. The potential for ruinously expensive component failure shouldn’t be overlooked either, and reliability is patchy: most are excellent, but some are so bad you’d want to set fire to it.

That said, I’m buying a second one…

 

[zipdip]

This is going to be a great long-distance tourer

I have never been a bike person,but it looks great just one question it only seems to have one seat.

 

[st13phil]

I have never been a bike person,but it looks great just one question it only seems to have one seat.

The lower part of the seat at the front is where the rider sits, the passenger sits on the slightly higher bit behind the rider.

 

[Doodle]

Apart from that very small bit of torn stitching on the left shoulder, you could throw some new armour in it and back into service. The abrasion resistance of modern textiles is almost ridiculous.

 

[st13phil]

The abrasion resistance of modern textiles is almost ridiculous.

True. But…

It’s one of those complex (and ludicrously expensive) Goretex laminates and I’m not comfortable that it’s still 100% waterproof which rather compromises it’s effectiveness.

 

[Doodle]

If the seam has split then probably not. Coming soon to an ebay auction then?

 

[mattk1]

Glad you and Angie escaped relatively injury-free.

KR Matt

 

[MJJ]

I had not noticed this thread until this morning, and sorry to hear of your accident Phil.

I have been a very happy 100 mile per day, all weather bike commuter for far more years than I care to remember now. Modern bikes are just so capable in the role, and also allow you to raise many smiles on the way to work and back. I did 80k miles each on a Triumph Trophy, then a Kawasaki 1400GTR. Both great tools, though both dissolved aesthetically with the constant use in rain and salt.

With the last two years bringing a substantial mileage decrease, I treated myself in Sept. to a new run-out model K1600GTLE. I echo all the praise for the bike on here, it is a truly wonderful machine for crunching miles - solo, or loaded up with wife and kit. Heavy to wheel in and out of the garage - reverse helps - but very secure, and balanced on the move. Some of the trinkets are wonderfully useful (central locking, and cruise) and I had not had these before. Others (looking at you, radio and speakers) are tragically pointless.

A big part of me thinks that the much lighter, but equally cossetting R1250RT is probably a better bike for most, but for me, I cannot let the lure of an inline 6 pass me by. That engine is just sublime, as has been said above. Instant drive everywhere, and howls like an E36 M3 when you are using the upper reaches. I am so glad they have kept it going with a new EU5 version.

I think that two of these top ends on a common crank, with a little modernising of the material choice and intake set-up would make a magnificent V12 ICE to go in these down-sized, hybrid monster supercars that are being built these days.

Martin.