New user needs some help - pretty please with sugar on top !

[rachaelb]

Hello,

I'm new to car forums I'm afraid so please excuse me for jumping straight in and asking for help but I'm in a bit of a pickle with my Smart Car.

I have an 09 plate Fortwo Passion MHD Auto and have just been told that the engine has siezed and that I am facing a bill for £6000 upwards !

Without getting too in depth and boring, I have a warranty but the repair is being contested by the company that supplied it as they say the battery light will have came on when the problem occurred (the belt driving the water pump slipped off) and I should have stopped immediately. As it happens, no light came on and I drove for around 17 miles with no water pump working, the engine overheated and the whole lot siezed up.

My local garage is not a Smart Car expert and he is having trouble locating a 'short' engine or a complete replacement from anywhere other than MB at a very high cost ! Can anyone offer me any help and advice as to where I should look to get this problem sorted out please ? The warranty is one thing and I will fight that with some legal help I already have from work but I need to get the car up and running again ASAP and all I have found to date from looking on the internet seems to be rebuilds for smaller CC engines - I'm not sure if there is anyone out there that can fix the 1000CC engine from my car ?

Any help would be really appreciated, thanks in advance

Rachael

 

[redbaron]

plenty of breakers out there should have a smart engine... would also look on ebay.de they have a massive selection compared with here...

for example:

Smart 451 ForTwo 999ccm / 1,0 L mhd Benziner 52KW Motor Engine - Gebrauchtmotor | eBay

 

[Bellow]

Have a look here >> Drive belt

This is starting to become an issue. MB/smart with the earlier model have been reasonable with out of warranty good will repairs. The ESKULAB procedure has served well for failed front springs for example.

It seems that smart have underspecified the water pump belt given that it also starts the engine (once warmed) when operating in MHD mode.

 

[brucemillar]

Rachael

Somebody else will come along who may well know better than me.

In my experience the battery light would only show if the battery dropped below operating voltage. So you may well have been able to drive 17 miles without having a warning light appear.

That said. The battery warning light is to warn you that the battery has an issue (in your case not being charged due to lack of belt). It is not there to show you that your engine is about to seize up. Does the handbook for the car state that you should immediately stop the car in the event of a battery warning light as the engine may seize up?

Have a very good look at your small print on the warranty and if unsure invoke the assistance of a lawyer or friendly expert.

Please keep us posted on your progress. Good luck.

 

[corned]

Just trying to understand the original problem a bit better. Sorry I can't offer any specific help to get you going again.

I assume that the warranty company are contesting the claim on the grounds that if the drivebelt broke/slipped off and caused the water pump to stop working, it would also have caused the alternator to stop working.

Usually, the alternator light would indeed light up if the ignition is on and the alternator is not generating any current. You would assume that the loss of the belt would cause this to happen.

If the light did not come on in the circumstances described, does it definitely come on when you switch the ignition on - but before you start the engine?

Is the alternator perhaps driven by a different means other than the belt which drives the water pump?

In any event, I hope you are back up and running ASAP. Good luck.

 

[markjay]

brucemillar has a valid point, i.e. even assuming the charging light did come on, does the owners manual say 'stop immediatly' or 'drive to workshop'?

 

[Dieselman]

I would say you have a few avenues to further.

Speak to a Mercedes dealership as the car might still be covered by the original 3 year warranty, if not and it is a known issue Mercedes may well pick up the tab anyway.

Have a solicitor check the warranty you have to see whether it should cover this.

Claim on your own insurance if you are covered comprehensively,

Speak to an independent repairer, who should be either able to rebuild the engine or source one.

Speak to a motoring magazine such as Auto Express, to see if they will apply some pressure to get the car fixed. They will.


All is not lost.

 

[markjay]

One orher thing... does the smart not have any indication on the instrument cluster for coolant temperature or engine overheating?

If so, you could well argue a design fault with MB.

 

[Gollom]

Hello,

I'm new to car forums I'm afraid so please excuse me for jumping straight in and asking for help but I'm in a bit of a pickle with my Smart Car.

I have an 09 plate Fortwo Passion MHD Auto and have just been told that the engine has siezed and that I am facing a bill for £6000 upwards !

Without getting too in depth and boring, I have a warranty but the repair is being contested by the company that supplied it as they say the battery light will have came on when the problem occurred (the belt driving the water pump slipped off) and I should have stopped immediately. As it happens, no light came on and I drove for around 17 miles with no water pump working, the engine overheated and the whole lot siezed up.

My local garage is not a Smart Car expert and he is having trouble locating a 'short' engine or a complete replacement from anywhere other than MB at a very high cost ! Can anyone offer me any help and advice as to where I should look to get this problem sorted out please ? The warranty is one thing and I will fight that with some legal help I already have from work but I need to get the car up and running again ASAP and all I have found to date from looking on the internet seems to be rebuilds for smaller CC engines - I'm not sure if there is anyone out there that can fix the 1000CC engine from my car ?

Any help would be really appreciated, thanks in advance

Rachael

There is a lady on here who has a Smart place (can't remember her name - anybody help?) and has always been helpful. Want me to PM her for you? (you can't PM until you have 30 posts)

 

[BaldGuy]

Isn't that Smartie?

 

[Gollom]

Isn't that Smartie?

Yup. I have sent her a PM

 

[grober]

The Smart has a warning light for the alternator/battery [ battery symbol?] If its current sensing then it should light up but if its voltage sensing it may not illuminate till battery voltage has dropped as brucemillar says. It also has a coolant temperature light [ thermometer symbol]and an engine warning light [ oil pressure? = oil can symbol ] which might have all lit up eventually in the event of imminent engine seizure. Seems unlike the poster would have missed all three?

question
How does the garage know for certain you drove 17 miles?
How do you know the belt came off? Did they tell you that?
What exactly brought the car to a halt?
Sounds as if the warranty company are trying to wiggle out of this one.

Either that of the poster ignored / missed the warning light- easily done

 

[rachaelb]

Thanks to everyone for replying, it really is a great help!

My local mercedes garage that my car was towed to informed me that the battery light came on 17 miles before the car came to a stop by running my diagnostic test. This is the same garage that had my car for it's last service and tried to repair my car in the past when I was having problems with the engine just cutting out for no reason, It ended up going back to the dealership that I bought it from the second time it broke down to repair the issue, this, as it turned out was the alternator.

To answer your questions, I still maintain that no light came on, and with me having problems with the car in the past, I always turn off the eco mode when it lights up as i'm still weary that if the engine stops, it wont start again, so I am sensitive to lights coming on

I drove my car 30 miles from home to work, without issue, straight down the A1. As I arrived closer to work I had to drive over 4 round about's and 2 streets with very high speed bumps and over several junctions. At no point did I loose performance or was alerted to anything going wrong with my car. I parked up, and it was only then that I smelt something odd, a colleague pulled up next to me and put the smell down to her diesel engine. when I left work 4 hrs later the engine wouldn't turn over and I thought that it was more than likely the alternator again.....well it was, but with additional problems!

The warranty company (smart warranty) state that they will cover the alternator and pivot bearing but not the engine as I continued to drive the vehicle after the battery light came on.....

No other lights were detected as coming on, temperature etc... just the battery.

It's a nightmare and I still have 2 years left to pay on the car! any more advise gratefully received.

Thanks again

Rachael

 

[rachaelb]

Oh, and I was told that the belt came off by the garage. They state that the alternator stopped working, causing the belt to come off, that stopped the coolant from going in to the engine and that caused the the engine to seize. I still don't know how all of that could have happened with no loss of performance??

 

[brucemillar]

I think you need some professional advice on this.

1) You say NO lights came on and there was no indication of any problem, until you returned to your car after work and it refused to start.

2) Local garage say that diagnostics show that the light came on 17 miles before you stopped at work. How do they know the light came on as opposed to the belt came off sending a failure signal to the light. Dead bulbs do not light up.

3) Very interesting and possibly your biggest get out. The main dealer has had the car back already for a failed alternator which they replaced? as part of you local dealers attempts to rectify the same fault.

I would suggest that your car suffers more than can be expected with alternator troubles. You could argue that the previous visits were symptoms of the eventual seizure and were miss-diagnosed.

Suggest that you ensure you have read the handbook and the warranty docs carefully then go back to the warranty company and ask them where it states that a battery light acts as an engine seizure warning.

I would be suspicious of the previous repairs/diagnostics carried out.

e.g. If you could show that the alternator threw the belt due to poor fitting etc how can you be held responsible.

 

[bolide]

The warranty company (smart warranty) state that they will cover the alternator and pivot bearing but not the engine as I continued to drive the vehicle after the battery light came on.....

That's a reasonable response from them. It suggests that, for them to change their stance, you will have to demonstrate that the light did not come on. You will have to find out what causes the light to come on - battery voltage low or alternator not charging. Traditionally it is the latter. If that is the case with your car the warning lamp would have illuminated

If the problem was caused by the alternator failing I suggest your first port of call would be the workshop manager or dealer principal at the garage which fitted the new alternator

Before any work is done on the car I suggest you employ a qualified examiner asap to determine what is damaged. This information may prove vital to the final outcome

I would expect this to get very, very messy and think you should consider making a claim against your car insurance

Nick Froome

 

[grumpyoldgit]

Thanks to everyone for replying, it really is a great help!

My local mercedes garage that my car was towed to informed me that the battery light came on 17 miles before the car came to a stop by running my diagnostic test. This is the same garage that had my car for it's last service and tried to repair my car in the past when I was having problems with the engine just cutting out for no reason, It ended up going back to the dealership that I bought it from the second time it broke down to repair the issue, this, as it turned out was the alternator.

To answer your questions, I still maintain that no light came on, and with me having problems with the car in the past, I always turn off the eco mode when it lights up as i'm still weary that if the engine stops, it wont start again, so I am sensitive to lights coming on

I drove my car 30 miles from home to work, without issue, straight down the A1. As I arrived closer to work I had to drive over 4 round about's and 2 streets with very high speed bumps and over several junctions. At no point did I loose performance or was alerted to anything going wrong with my car. I parked up, and it was only then that I smelt something odd, a colleague pulled up next to me and put the smell down to her diesel engine. when I left work 4 hrs later the engine wouldn't turn over and I thought that it was more than likely the alternator again.....well it was, but with additional problems!

The warranty company (smart warranty) state that they will cover the alternator and pivot bearing but not the engine as I continued to drive the vehicle after the battery light came on.....

No other lights were detected as coming on, temperature etc... just the battery.

It's a nightmare and I still have 2 years left to pay on the car! any more advise gratefully received.

Thanks again

Rachael

Hi Rachael,

One point. When you left work and tried to start it again, did any of the dashboard lights come on as they normally should do? In particular the battery / ignition light. If not it could imply that there is indeed a serious fault with the alternator and could explain why it didn't come on when the belt was thrown off. Either that or a blown bulb as mentioned by brucemillar.

It may be worth getting an independent auto electrician AA/RAC etc., to check the electrics before anyone touches anything.

 

[sam2793]

Hi Rachael,

I am so pleased to have come across this thread, as I have gone through the exact same problems as yourself near enough! To cut a very long story short, my alternator belt also snapped on a brand new 61 plate smart back in April. The same sequence of events that happened to you happened to me! Mercedes quoted us £8.5k for the repairal initially but after 3 months of fighting we've come out on top!

Please get in touch either by email or phone and we can discuss further.

 

[219]

Rachael , if the worst happens and they refuse to stump up , there are numerous Smarts in breakers yards around the country - I saw one in a yard near Glasgow just the other day , and have seen others before .

You should be able to get a good engine out of an accident damaged car , ideally as recent/low mileage a one as you can find .

Alternatively , there is a company called Crewe Engines who specialise in remanufacturing Mercedes engines - I don't know if they work on Smart engines , but worth asking .

Crewe Engines

Hopefully , you will get some contribution from Mercedes or the warranty company , but otherwise the above are options you might explore .

 

[BTB 500]

Please get in touch either by email or phone and we can discuss further.

She hasn't been here since June 19th ...