Newbie (E320 question)

[hawk20]

Also dealers are seeing a return to petrol, so alot of people are not letting it put them off.
.

Not in big cars they aren't? certainly not round here and certainly not in the threads I have read which say large petrols are becoming almost impossible to part ex except at silly figures and dealers say they are becoming almost impossible to sell secondhand.

But I agree they are cheap to buy secondhand and for lower mileage people may pay -if you don't worry about resale.

 

[gIzzE]

You're absolutely correct, buying a large petrol new or even 6 months old is financial suicide, it will loose far more money. But that is what makes them so tempting as they get older, as a used buyer they can be an absolute steal.

 

[Dieselman]

Not in big cars they aren't?

Or according to SMMT data, but what do they know..

New car registrations fall 21.2% in September to 330,295 units.

* Year-to-date volume is down 7.5% to 1,794,419 units.

* Diesel market share increases to 42.8% in September, but volumes fell.

* SMMT urges government to take immediate action to restore consumer confidence.


This is unlikely to help petrol car sales.

“New car registrations have fallen for the fifth consecutive month and represent the most difficult economic conditions the industry has faced in 17 years,” said Paul Everitt, SMMT chief executive. “Government action is now needed to restore consumer confidence and boost demand in the real economy. The chancellor's pre-budget report should set out a package of measures to boost demand for new fuel-efficient cars and scrap plans for unfair increases in car tax.”




Latest registration figures. Going down..
http://www.smmt.co.uk/articles/article.cfm?articleid=18080

 

[gIzzE]

I think big cars in general are suffering, diesel or petrol.

Someone I know who is a broker and usually does a lot of 330i, 335i, 335d, E320cdi, A6 3.0tdi and A6 4.2's is doing alot of the smaller cars, so 320i, C200, A6 2.0T etc.
Then the guy who came in on Saturday and said petrols have suddenly stated selling well.

Plus as I said I have gone completely petrol for the first time in 10 years.


I am not saying the petrols are better cars, that is completely personal choice, but when buying you have to think about it again, and that has not happened in a very long time, diesel was always the sensible purchase.

 

[ET4]

U sound like you want what I want from a car

Practicallity, not too expensive to run & fun in the twisty bits on ur own

I bought a C240 sport estate about 3 weeks ago. Family car. Might not be big enough for u though?
Suspension is mint, lower and stiffer than normal. Steering is not that resposive though, but you do get a good feeling in a corner.
Engine sounds great and has plenty of pull.
Car 'Audio 10' is poor but the soundproofing is brilliant, room for improvement ( I'm on it !)
24 mpg and I don't drive like miss daisy.. ..
Benz diesels are bomb proof....
E320 CDi torque will make u grin . . Handling . . ?

Good luck choosing

 

[gIzzE]

That is a very good point, why are you looking at E Classes Dave??


Have you considered a C Class?? A lot more chuckable, still got the nice Mercedes comfort though and it will give you more of what you want more of the time.

 

[Antharro]

Wow, I certainly wasn't expecting all of this debate! I certainly appreciate all the opinions being thrown in the ring here, you've made me consider different angles on this whole thing.

Petrol vs. Diesel

I understand the argument here. There's really something nice about that moment when the turbo kicks in and you get kicked back. However, there's also something in hammering a V6 and feeling (and hearing!) that power all the way through the rev range.

On the financial side, it really is a decision between better economy but more expensive fuel vs. lower economy but cheaper fuel. It's good to see some real life figures, more information helps make for a balanced opinion.

As has been said, it's really a personal choice, and I honestly don't know what to go for. Throw in the fun with tax... I guess it depends on what happens with the economy in the next few months.

Facelift or not

From what I'm seeing, the facelift is on the year 2000 model onwards. Simply put, I can't stretch to the money required to get a decent year 2000 model. Older years are within my price range. This also means I won't be looking at finance packages, tho I appreciate the thought.

Resell Value

I tend to pass my cars onto other family members or run them until they're only good for spares, so I'm not overly concerned about resell value.

C-Class vs. E-Class

I don't have any specific reason for wanting an E-class. When the E-class came out, I hated the new design and always thought I'd end up with a C. But now I'm actually looking with the potential to buy, I seem to prefer the E.

It's not that I dislike the C - it has that classic Mercedes look. I'm not a fan of the rear end design of either the saloon or estate - much prefer the E's design. I also feel like the C is now the "older" design; the Es of the age I'm looking at (96-99) seem to have aged better, in my opinion anyway.

I like the 80ies/early 90ies Mercs, especially the larger engined models with the slab front end and the wide body S-class.

But excepting that rear light design on the C, I have no real reason for not wanting one - it's just personal preference. That said, I am not aware of any real technical differences between the two, so I'm somewhat in the dark there.

I did a quick search on eBay and AutoTrader, but found more E320s than C320s.


More debate please, it's most helpful!

 

[kusanku]

The petrol/diesel debate is interesting. I did some calculations a couple of months ago comparing the cost per mile on different c-class engines, matched roughly for performance figures. Comparing the 220cdi diesel to the 180k petrol, the cost per mile worked out almost identical, with the respective fuel prices at that time. The C180k was the cheaper car to buy though. I also compared the 270cdi to the petrol 240 (which is actually a 2.6), and the 270cdi represented a considerable saving, but the 270cdi was more expensive to buy. Obviously purchase prices and fuel prices have changed, so the figures I came up with then will not apply now.

Anyway, Antharro welcome to the forum. Have you taken either a C or an E-class for a test-drive? The 202 c-class and the 210 e-class are very different cars to drive. At the age you are considering, BOTH models are rust-prone. I loved my E-class, would probably have kept it forever had it not been rusting and re-rusting. For me, the driving experience of the c-class did not compare on any level, but that is a reflection of personal taste and also the fact that I ended up doing a lot of motorway driving, where the E-class really triumphs. But, before you go any further, I would strongly recommend you get inside both cars and see how they drive. The very informed, and informative, discussions you read here are coming from the perspective of people who like driving Mercs. The previous cars you mention that you like are really quite far removed from an E320 (diesel or petrol), or a c-class. I am not altogether sure you will like either car. If you do, I am certain you will have a clear preference for one over the other, based upon how they drive.

The same applies to diesel/petrol. That initial turbo lag is still there on the diesels, and not everybody finds it acceptable. There is also the questions of noise. Diesel engines are quieter than they used to be, but they are still louder than petrols on idle, particularly when cold. Less of an issue on the E-class, as it has better sound insulation. Higher mileage examples also tend to smoke a bit if you accelerate hard. None of these things bother me (although the increasing cost of diesel at the pumps does), but they are enough to put off a lot of people.

Regarding face-lift models, I would have thought that any E320cdi will be a face-lift model, although I may be wrong. Looking on Autotrader, there are a few 1999/2000/2001 E320 cdis with around 100k on the clock, for just over £3000. There is even a 2004 211 series E320 cdi avantgarde saloon with 75k on the clock for £3400 , which sounds too good to be true. It would not take much bartering to get a 2000 E320 cdi for under £2800, methinks.

Good luck.

 

[Dieselman]

There is also the questions of noise. Diesel engines are quieter than they used to be,

Are they.? Is any direct CDI engine quieter than an indirect OM606.? As you correctly say they are noisier than petrols at idle, however I recently read the specs for S pertol and diesel and it showed the diesel to be 2db quieter at 70mph than the petrol.

Without a doubt there is a lot of 'horses for courses' in the debate and chioce.

 

[kth286]

Her are a couple of things to ponder when choosing petrol or diesel.

First the govt here in UK. Are the VED increases we have had just the precursor of worse to come. Not while the polls are so bad but later maybe. Petrols have higher emissions for a given level of performance and will be worse hit than diesels.

So why is Dr Thomas Weber of Mercedes Benz quoting the following:

"Diesotto Engine.
Our strategic objective is to make the gasoline powered car as economical as the diesel, and the diesel as clean as the gasoline engine.
Bluetec technology was the first step, Diesotto is the next."

 

[Dieselman]

So why is Dr Thomas Weber of Mercedes Benz quoting the following:

"Diesotto Engine.
Our strategic objective is to make the gasoline powered car as economical as the diesel, and the diesel as clean as the gasoline engine.
Bluetec technology was the first step, Diesotto is the next."

I think you will find that is a bit of Marketing speak coupled with the reduced efficency of modern diesels but taken one step further.

Euro5 and 6 will ensure diesels are as clean as petrols anyway. The diesoto engine gives them an oportunity to make either engine from one development and manufacturing cost.

 

[maddog]

Its not just down to economy imo i prefer the diesel because its feels a lot quicker* and is better suited to the autobox

Add on the extra range , longer intervals between services, i really dont see the downside

Its still a barge and hustling down country lanes requires a lot of attention and really isnt fun , thats not what these cars are about


*and if chipped its a lot quicker and still more economical than the petrol

 

[kth286]

Mercedes immediate future is going to be petrol using the Diesotto engine as mentioned in post above.

The test engines in S class cars are only 1800cc with sequential turbocharging and direct petrol injection using normal unleaded.

Combustion is initiated by spark plug which is also is used on full load, but cruises like a diesel using controlled auto ignition.

Produces 235 bhp and 295 lb ft torque and achieves 53 mpg in S class.

CO 2 emissions just 127 g/km on normal unleaded.

So, petrol only, until the next big step which is hydrogen power.

 

[Antharro]

Apologies for deserting the thread... I've been a bit ill over the last few days, but better now!

kusanku - Thanks for the welcome. I'd definitely like to get a little experience with both the C and the E, but I've not had the opportunity to take either out. None of my local second-hand car sales places seem to stock anything older than a '51 or '52 plate, which are way out of my budget. Which leaves me with travelling longer distances to find dealers who advertise on eBay or AutoTrader, which involves time and expense.

Of course, if any club members in my area (near Bournemouth) would let me take the wheel then I would be most greatful!

 

[Mark300SL]

Hi Anth - I thought you might drop in here one day

Aerodeck VTi Estate - you know it makes sense! - 177Hp, 35mpg no rust and you already know all about the way they work. Parts are cheaper and servicing will be easier.

With regards to the age of E or C class vehicles you are looking at you will seriously need to conside rrust - which you wont have had with the FTO although your early mk2 Rex may well have required some remedial action!
If you find a Merc that you want the driving experience is a totally different experience to Jap FWD.
My SL is incredibly solid, feels like its hewn out of solid granite and recently survived a hit that would have destroyed any Honda.

I still have 3 CRX's but I also have 3 Mercs

 

[Antharro]

Heyhey! Moderator on here, huh?

I have been considering an Aerodeck VTi... I have been promising myself either a Jag or a Merc for years. We've always had one or the other or both in the family and I really want one for myself. With the money I can get for selling the FTO plus a little extra, I can afford one.

The CRX has definitely had some rust issues which I've been working on, the back arches will need doing before they get too bad, but I'm really looking at selling it to help fund the next car.

The FTO's pretty good for rust. It's undersealed and I only have a couple of tiny patches I need to look at. It's due for a good valeting soon so I'll be able to check it over then.

I saw the pics you posted of your SL's accident. If I had the money I'd like one just like yours..... but I don't. (I'd also like an XK8 and a 450SEL 6.9, but definitely can't afford either!)

What you're saying about the Accord makes a lot of sense (I currently have a '92 Accord Aerodeck and I love it), but I want a Merc. Even if I don't keep it for a long time, I still want one!

 

[Mark300SL]

Then buy one - and if you chose wisely you won't regret it.

Check for rust, check for S/H, Find a good independant garage to look after service and repairs (Try Olly at PCS he isnt too far from you and worth travelling the distance for)

Servicing will cost more than you are used to, as will repairs and you are slightly more limited in your ability to self diagnose & repair with the onboard computers without specialist equipment. They are much more complicated than what you are currently used to.

Above all, take your time - Its a buyers market out there



Mark

 

[Antharro]

I'm aware of the rust issues, and having fought rust on virtually ever car I've owned since I passed my test at 17, I'm really looking for a car that's as rust-free as possible.

I know I'll be giving up the fun of the CRX and FTO, but hopefully I'll be getting myself something that's big and relatively fast, even if it doesn't have the rawness of either of those two cars. I very much enjoyed driving my father's Series 3 XJ6, and that was a big heavy car with soft suspension. (Not that I'm expecting either the C or E to drive anything like it!!!)

As far as diagnosing goes, I don't tend to do a huge amount myself. I can go as far as testing for spark, changing plugs, HT leads, oil change, filter change, adjusting a clutch, tuning a carb (badly). That's about it. Anything else generally gets thrown at my mechanic.

One of the two local mechanics I use is a Merc fan, so I suspect he won't taking care of whatever I buy for me. You mentioned PCS - did you mean these guys? http://www.pcs-mk.co.uk/

 

[Mark300SL]

I know I'll be giving up the fun of the CRX and FTO, but hopefully I'll be getting myself something that's big and relatively fast, even if it doesn't have the rawness of either of those two cars.

You could be pleasantly surprised - I took my 3.0 12v SL to the N Wales meet last year and kept up with all the Hondas quite capably even with Allison in the passengers seat keeping my driving very sensible. - Its not the fastest thing off the line but on 245/45/17 tyres and half decent brakes it handles and stops well once its moving.
The average Merc will be just as quick and instead of raw it will be refined - thats part of the pleasure of ownership.

You will discover more torque has definate advantages over sheer high Rpm HP

 

[Antharro]

Mmm. The refinedness is one thing I'm looking forward to. I'm sure there's a whole load of things I won't have considered that I'll find once I'm behind the wheel. But either way, I'm pretty sure an E-Class estate won't handle anywhere near as well as your SL!