NIP Advice

[Lecky]

Hi, after the thoughts form those who may have been in my situation.

A couple of weeks ago a letter dropped on my doormat from Hampshire Constabulary in the form of a Notice of Intended Prosecution. The incident related to my allegedly travelling at 35mph in a 30mph limit 7 days previously.

I can't recall the journey on that day as it was 7 days ago. It was on the route I would normally take to work although I'm off sick at the moment. I have worked out that I did make a journey that day and would have been in the location I've been acused of. I however have no way of recalling the speed that I would have been travelling at through the village.

Now, I consider myself to be a slow driver who has had a clean licence for more than 20 yrs. I have also passed the IAM test. I was fully aware of the speed limit through the village as I drive it daily. I am also aware that the police covertly operate there so wouldn't deliberatly speed through the village.

I've been offered no evidence at this stage bar a line saying they have video/dvd &/or photographic evidence.

My options appear to be:
1. to pay £90 and go on a speed awareness course.
2. £60 / 3 points fixed penalty.
3. go to court.

No.1 seems the easiest less painful option.
No.2 seems the cheapest option. ( I doubt it will affect my ins. premium)No.3 seems the riskiest option.

I'm leaning towards No.3 as I would like to see the evidence and paperwork verifying that the speed trap was legal / properly calibrated etc. for myself before admitting guilt. The method of capture is described as manned equipment. I wasn't pulled in at the time and shown the errors of my way. Yes I know its very easy for your speed to creep up a couple of miles an hour and then be in the wrong place etc.

I'm not a legal person and haven't spoken to anyone who has opted for No.3. Would I be right in thinking worse case would be £1000 / 6 points?

If anyone has been in a similar situation I'd be interested to hear from you. Before you reply, I'm happy to 'take it on the chin' but feel that some sort of evidence should be offered first as I honestly dont remember the details of the journey.

Thanks.

What I'm really

 

[SL300-24]

Seems a bit harsh, I thought they usually allow 10% plus 2mph which is 35mph....(might be wrong) before prosecuting anyone, and although this was the speed they say that you were doing, I would have thought it would have to be a little higher before they nick you.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

I'm fairly certain you can ask to see all their evidence before it goes any further. We know that the police can and do make mistakes. They MAY have done so in this instance. If, after looking at the evidence, you agree that it was a minor slip on your part then I'd chose option 1 or 2, whichever suits you best.

 

[BTB 500]

35 mph is unfortunately the minimum speed for issuing a fixed penalty under the ACPO guidelines.

I *think* you can ask to see the evidence without having to go to court first. Worth a phone call (assuming there are contact details on the NIP)?

If you do decide to contest it this might be useful reading:

http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/uniformed/2011/201112UOBAOpUseSRLODTv11.pdf

Be aware that if you take the speed awareness course these increasingly have to be declared to your insurer now, and can affect your premium.

 

[joecash]

20 years and never been done - well done
ask for all the evidence - if they have you "bang to rights" as they say take the "course" but this can impact your insurance costs if asked - if you don't and take the points, your insurance will definitely go up by a lot. If they have got it wrong then you can point it out. Don't get in a tizz over it though, life's far too short.

 

[Charles Morgan]

My insurer didn't bat an eyelid when I mentioned my latest three points. For doing 35mph in a 30 zone.

I'd take the speed awareness course, even if it has to be notified to your insurer. It means you still have a full 12 points to play with if you really want to let rip at some point. It might also teach you to be aware of your speed, as you evidently weren't at the time.

 

[st13phil]

You are not entitled to see any evidence unless you opt for Court and plead Not Guilty. You may think that unfair and unreasonable (you're not alone in that), but that's how it works.

If you want to see what they have, then the best approach is to ask for "any photographs or video that may assist in the identification of the driver". They will normally oblige, but they don't have to. Any mention of the word "evidence" in your request will guarantee that the shutters come down and you get nothing.

Whatever happens, you must respond to the S172 request to name the driver unequivocally within 28 days of the request being made. If you don't you will commit another offence that will see you on the wrong end of 6 points, a substantial fine and an MS90 endorsement code on your licence - which insurance companies hate with a passion.

Realistically, the best option is to swallow your pride and pay £90 for the SAC (if that's been offered?). Think of it as another motoring tax

Welcome to conveyor belt "justice".

 

[Spinal]

Having been in a similar situation (albeit doing 38 in a 30 - that was a 40 until the day before) - pay the £90 and go on the course.

Life's too short to be spent arguing.

The system get's its pound of flesh, the statistics as to the police's effectiveness go up (another criminal brought to justice) and you get to lose only a few hours watching pictures of accidents (and sitting in a car with an instructor who drives MUCH faster than you would)

m.

 

[Ted]

Forget the rights and wrongs and take option one, and spend a day realising all the bad habits that have crept in over the years of driving.
For the price of a fill up it is money well spent.

 

[baxlin]

Forget the rights and wrongs and take option one, and spend a day realising all the bad habits that have crept in over the years of driving.
For the price of a fill up it is money well spent.

FWIW, I agree, and think everyone should go on a Safety (Speed) Awareness Course.

Regarding "evidence", the camera's not just calibrated for speed, it also has to be correct on time. I successfully challenged a ticket as I was able to prove the camera's clock was wrong (The photo evidence showed pitch darkness when it was daylight at the time the camera said the offence took place).

BTW these are the only driving offences (that I've been caught for ) since I passed my bike test in 1963, and car test in 1964.

 

[IanA2]

I'm not sure if your NIP is different from being caught by a fixed speed camera. A few years ago SWMBO was sent a ticket for 46 in a 40 limit. On receipt I wrote asking for pics and calibration which were sent by return. No SAC was offered. Three points and £60; however as Charles has said, the Insurers made no adjustment to the premium. Chatting to them they advised me that they tend to ignore the first speeding offence (I guess as long as it's not 138mph).

So on balance, I would ask for the calibration etc and, assuming it's kosher, take the SAC.

 

[Lecky]

Wow, didn't expect so many replies so soon - much appreciated with some good comments.

BTB 500's link was rather enlightening and possibly puts a dampener on my challenging the equipment calibration.

coincidentally, my insurance is due for renewal and I note they now ask if a driver speed awareness course has been undertaken. I reckon this will be viewed in much the same light as getting the points as regards premium loading. I really don't think my £230 fully comp renewal for the Clk is going to go up much.

Baxlin's story surely shows that challenging the calibration / clock is valid as he proved in his case that the equipment being used by the police wasn't set up properly.

Still not sure which way to go on this one so I'll use the full 28 days before replying to the NIP declaring myself the driver.

 

[st13phil]

Still not sure which way to go on this one so I'll use the full 28 days before replying to the NIP declaring myself the driver.

Be careful you don't cut it too fine. The response needs to be received within 28 days, not sent within 28 days.

 

[Rory]

Seems a bit harsh, I thought they usually allow 10% plus 2mph which is 35mph....(might be wrong) before prosecuting anyone, and although this was the speed they say that you were doing, I would have thought it would have to be a little higher before they nick you.

It's not about nicking people, it's about rounding up attendees for the local speed awareness courses (SAC) to keep all the people involved (often retired police officers) in jobs.

Fines go to central government now - they used to be able to keep them to fund local speed awareness initiatives. Since that was taken away, they have to catch a lot of people marginally over the limit so they can be offered an SAC - too much over the limit is no good, as you can't be offered an SAC then.

 

[Ian Donkin]

The SAC makes an interesting point though... One person doing 60 in a 30 zone v hundreds doing high 30's; the likelihood of pedestrian incident is higher with those doing high 30's (as there are so many more of them)... Get the bulk to adjust their behaviour and the roads are a safer place.

I thought the SAC was a good refresher after almost 30 years on the road (and I readily admit I was consciously speeding when I was caught).

 

[Scott_F]

You do have a fourth option.

Go to your local police station armed with an automatic rifle, 300 rounds of ammunition and several hand grenades.

And a bazooka.

Barricade yourself in ready for a long siege at the end of which you go down in a blaze of gunfire like Butch and Sundance taking as many coppers with you as you can.

 

[jamesfuller]

As far as I'm aware, not every county offers the option of an awareness course in place of points. If you have the choice this time go for no points in case you don't have the choice next time!

 

[markjay]

I never needed to challange a NIP issued by police, but I successfully challanged a few PCNs issused by the council, they were plain erroneous (not loopholes / grey areas etc) and the council accpeted that.

It is always a good idea to try and see the evidence, if you can, before accepting liability.

 

[Howard]

Your insurance won't go up at all for 3 points , don't worry about that.

 

[flango]

Just take the 3 points and £60, the speed awareness course is 4 hours of your life you will never get back and If they are anything like they are around here you won't learn anything either. As an advanced driver trainer I get regular offers to do teach these courses at good money but I won't do them because I don't agree with the content. Will 4 hours of preaching the stats make you a better driver? No it won't, will a structured workshop and practical make you a better driver? definitely. It's not about improving driver ability its about money.

Insurance companies now view and SP30 and Speed awareness course the same so 3 points wont hurt your license even though it is petty at 35mph unless it was near a school.