NIP and summons on the same day!!!

[Dieselman]

AHHHH! Now there's the admission of guilt!

Sorry... couldn't resist...

Damn good point spinal.

W210fan...sorry..you're sunk...

 

[flango]

I have been shown the evidence from the other party, they are claiming it happened on a roundabout and their was two of them in the car, I am claiming it was on the dual cariageway and therefore their fault, the passenger in the car I am informed cant really be used but it is my word against theirs and they look better as they reported it and I didnt,

I am not saying the following is correct for all courts or that I agree with it, but in my experience of dealing with magistrates they usually apply this pre conception, if the contact occurred on the roundabout they would deem the person in the inside lane (i.e nearest the roundabout) to be at fault as it is their responsibility to check the exit is clear and there is nothing on their nearside. If the contact occurred on the dual carrigeway then they would deem the person in lane one to be at fault for pulling out into traffic when there was not sufficient space to do so. Now I know people can cut from lane 2 to 1 and clip other cars and people can change lanes on roundabouts unpredictably which is not covered by the above, but there would have to be overwhelming evidence to get them away from this pre conception. As to the other passenger in the Puma no doubt the police will have interviewed them and got a statement but highly unlikely they would use them in court for obvious reasons. As for leaving the scene of an accident I wouldn't worry too much about that as it wasn't really an accident and no one was injured. I think your best defence lies in where the point of contact actually occurred if this is in dispute as you say then you want to make the most of this fact as if you can convince them it was on the dual carrigeway then this shifts doubt onto the other party. You don't say in your post what the actual offence the summons is for, if you want to PM me and tell me I will see what else I can find out from my contacts if not I understand, but as mentioned by other people maybe this is not the best one to defend your self and you should contact some of the firms mentioned many who offer a first free consultation good luck and I hope justice prevails

 

[glojo]

Only you and the Puma driver know the truth but your problem wll be the failing to report the incident.

Putting the boot on the other foot for a moment then if a car hit me and failed to stop, then I would not be a happy bunny. We can all make excuses and if we believe the other driver was Mike Tyson on steriods then the law allows us to report the incident to a police station at the earliest convienance. You made a conscience decision not to bother and ignored that requirement which is probably in your insurance policy?

There is a possibility you might get away with this but perhaps your paying the costs for your own decisions.

Good luck
John

 

[Dieselman]

Dieselman, I wasnt indicating right, I was indicating left, I assume they assumed I was turning right because of the lane I was in, the came from the left lane and moved to the outside where I was driving, yes I did see it and just thought their lane discipline was shocking and carried on, I also thought I am driving a bright red Audi how can they miss it?

I'm assuming there were two lanes here, both can be used for straight on, one for right and maybe one for left as well. (can you confirm)
They are in the left lane, you are in the right lane as you traverse the roundabout.
At the point of exit the other party changes lanes into your lane for some reason. (what.?)

If this is a correct assumption then they have definitely changed lanes and are in the wrong.

I didn't realise the o-p was a woman initially. The Police may well have been influenced by that, but a court won't be.. (see my previous post. The Policeman was awarded a severe reprimand.)

It sounds like all you need to do is to prove you followed proper practice and she changed lanes into your lane.

The failing to report is a different issue. Have you been charged with that offense.?

 

[W210 Fan]

I'm assuming there were two lanes here, both can be used for straight on, one for right and maybe one for left as well. (can you confirm)
They are in the left lane, you are in the right lane as you traverse the roundabout.
At the point of exit the other party changes lanes into your lane for some reason. (what.?)

If this is a correct assumption then they have definitely changed lanes and are in the wrong.

I didn't realise the o-p was a woman initially. The Police may well have been influenced by that, but a court won't be.. (see my previous post. The Policeman was awarded a severe reprimand.)

It sounds like all you need to do is to prove you followed proper practice and she changed lanes into your lane.

The failing to report is a different issue. Have you been charged with that offense.?

Yes your correct,

the o/p changed lanes and moved into me after we had crossed the line from the roundabout and into the dual carriageway, that I remember very clearly,

Yes the o/p was a women, not a pretty one as I remember but a female never the less (kinda goes with that car and that colour choice but she cant be prosecuted for that!)

yes I have been charged with that too..

 

[glojo]

IAs for leaving the scene of an accident I wouldn't worry too much about that as it wasn't really an accident and no one was injured.

I'm amazed your saying this, but I do accept it is becoming fashionable.

How happy would you feel if someone reversed into your car, put a huge dent in the door and drove off? Not really an accident and no one was injured.

I accept in this particular instance we have one person saying there was not much damage to their car but no one knows how much damage was caused to the other vehicle. We all know the law, but more important is surely doing the right thing. Treat folks how you would like to be treated and at least do the right thing and exchange details with the other party.

I am NOT being holier than thou, I am merely someone that would hate to find their car damaged and the other driver running away without leaving their details. I am not suggesting W210 ran away, but they did fail to stop, and they did fail to report the accident\incident.

John

John

 

[Shude]

I am NOT being holier than thou, I am merely someone that would hate to find their car damaged and the other driver running away without leaving their details. I am not suggesting W210 ran away, but they did fail to stop, and they did fail to report the accident\incident.

Failing to stop after not realising you were involved in a collision is tricky though. We've all been *close* to another vehicle for one reason or another but that doesn't guarantee contact nor is contact if light enough easily detected.

If I stopped for every near-miss I'm sure I'd never get anywhere!

 

[Dieselman]

the o/p changed lanes and moved into me after we had crossed the line from the roundabout and into the dual carriageway, that I remember very clearly,

Why did she change lanes, if to overtake was she concentrating on that manouver and not using her mirrors. Was she in front of you or side by side.?

 

[Dieselman]

If I stopped for every near-miss I'm sure I'd never get anywhere!

And that's just getting off the drive..

 

[W210 Fan]

Failing to stop after not realising you were involved in a collision is tricky though. We've all been *close* to another vehicle for one reason or another but that doesn't guarantee contact nor is contact if light enough easily detected.

If I stopped for every near-miss I'm sure I'd never get anywhere!

that was my thought, also if I reported every bit of paint left on my car I would always be at the police station, we park end on end here and most peoples cars have paint from the neighbours, hasnt happened so much with the Merc which incidently has replacable quarters in the bumpers unlike the Audi so is easier to fix if it did happen

 

[flango]

I'm amazed your saying this, but I do accept it is becoming fashionable.

How happy would you feel if someone reversed into your car, put a huge dent in the door and drove off? Not really an accident and no one was injured.

I accept in this particular instance we have one person saying there was not much damage to their car but no one knows how much damage was caused to the other vehicle. We all know the law, but more important is surely doing the right thing. Treat folks how you would like to be treated and at least do the right thing and exchange details with the other party.

I am NOT being holier than thou, I am merely someone that would hate to find their car damaged and the other driver running away without leaving their details. I am not suggesting W210 ran away, but they did fail to stop, and they did fail to report the accident\incident.

John

John

No I agree with you John and you know my views on manners politeness and treat others as you would be like to treated yourself.

I was speaking from a prosecution point of view, there is all sorts of reasons not to stop after minor contact, feeling threatened or intimidated by the other driver and in one case where two parties stopped to exchange details at the scene which they did quite amicably, the agreived party (a woman) then promptly rang the police saying the other party had assulted her as he was leaving the scene, not nice.

Not reporting this one is the big no no even if it was a phone call to the local police station within 24 hours of the event, at least it would then be on record.

 

[W210 Fan]

Why did she change lanes, if to overtake was she concentrating on that manouver and not using her mirrors. Was she in front of you or side by side.?

possibly to overtake as there was cars in the left lane thus maybe not concentrating... she did turn right about half a mile later so maybe changing lanes to be into the correct lane to turn right later thinking it was empty...

we were side by side

 

[Dieselman]

possibly to overtake as there was cars in the left lane thus maybe not concentrating... she did turn right about half a mile later so maybe changing lanes to be into the correct lane to turn right later thinking it was empty...

we were side by side

Hard to see how this can be your fault, then, it sounds like hers.

Does the evidence reflect this information.?

Where was the paint contact, sides, front corner/rear corner..?

 

[Spinal]

No offence intended to anyone on the forum, but I do feel that it is in W210's best interest to contact a solicitor.

No matter how much advice we give him, at the end of the day it will be him, the prosecution and the judges (possibly his solicitor and a jury; depending on the type of case it is).

We can make guesses and hypothesis all day (and night), but W210Fan - you need to get professional advice. "De bloke on da intarnet said.." won't hold up in most courts. Get a copy of all the evidence (they should send this to you or your solicitors if you identify your solicitors to them) and proceed from there.

That's not to say that we can't support your morale and give you advice, recomendations and opinions - but take them as that. Opinions and advice. I deal with computers, and as much as I may like reading bits of the law, I feel you'de be best getting advice from a lawyer/solicitor.

By all means, keep us updated as well! (who knows, we may have a GTG at your court I'll bring some big protest-specification signs

Michele

 

[glojo]

If I stopped for every near-miss I'm sure I'd never get anywhere!

I don't want to appear to be having a go at W210, I respect his decision, he saw the paint and that was when the decision was made.

We have all had near misses, and that is a whole world of difference from a paint swapping job.

I hope W210 fan realises these offences carries points as prizes and I totally agree with Spinal, he desperately needs legal representation

John

 

[W210 Fan]

my side, pax door rubbing strip, didnt see her damage but she is claiming wing and bumper from her evidence I was shown, which is front corner which would happen is she was moving into me, also if, like she claims it happened on the roundabout then its her fault judging by where the damage is, having owned a Puma I doubt it was the wing as thats too high up looking at the height of the rubbing strip on the Audi,

 

[W210 Fan]

Yes I do need a solicitor, that was part of the question at the top of the page, if anybody had any success and could reccomend one as mine seems to be wearing a striped jumper and a mask at the moment, 3k is a lot to pay if we loose the case

 

[Dieselman]

No offence intended to anyone on the forum, but I do feel that it is in W210's best interest to contact a solicitor.

Of course, but before contacting a legal representative he should have a clear recollection of the events.

I remember your case and a lot of people saying you were in the wrong....but you weren't.
I'm pretty sure you didn't get off on a technicality, but proved the other party to be in the wrong.
All one needs to know is the rules of the road. As long as they are followed one cannot be prosecuted.

I'm just fact finding, but can't see a successful prosecution from the 'evidence' as given so far.

When someone I know was charged with either C-d or D-d and said he was going to represent himself I was seriously worried for him. He attended court with nothing more than the Highway code, and won convincingly.

 

[Dieselman]

my side, pax door rubbing strip, didnt see her damage but she is claiming wing and bumper from her evidence I was shown, which is front corner which would happen is she was moving into me,,

That indicates you were ahead of her, so she should give way to you anyway even if going for the same space.

So far, from what you have said, you haven't commited a moving offence, unless you were speeding like mad and cut her up after she started her manouver.

Were you and did you.?

 

[W210 Fan]

nope, doing about 25-30 and didnt deviate out of my lane or really change my speed,