Nox, Adblue & My view on Remapping - Stone me down?

[markjay]

This is already done in some US states....they plug into the OBD and check for faults.....any of the emissions based ones not showing ready or even a fault that's not yet thrown a EML and it fails....

But a 'Delete' actually maps-out the feature, so no fault will show on OBDII scanners. And (almost) all emissions-related faults will flag up the EML anyway, which is an automatic fail in itself, so no scanner needed....

 

[markjay]

...I have actually heard of claims being denied due to remaps and people being left with large finance settlements to clear.

The financial settlement on your vehicle is the least of your worries. If you're 'at fault' and personal injury to third party is involved, you could end-up in a world of (financial) pain for a very long time.

 

[ALFAitalia]

But a 'Delete' actually maps-out the feature, so no fault will show on OBDII scanners. And (almost) all emissions-related faults will flag up the EML anyway, which is an automatic fail in itself, so no scanner needed....

So if their tester cant see an Adblue systems on a car that should haver one....FAIL.....

 

[ALFAitalia]

The financial settlement on your vehicle is the least of your worries. If you're 'at fault' and personal injury to third party is involved, you could end-up in a world of (financial) pain for a very long time.

They would still pay out who you hit.....its legal requirement.....but they wont pay out for the damage to your own car.

 

[markjay]

They would still pay out who you hit.....its legal requirement.....but they wont pay out for the damage to your own car.

AND they will also chase you for whatever their loss was in relation to the third-party's personal injury claim... this could lead to legal bankruptcy.

 

[jaymanek]

But a 'Delete' actually maps-out the feature, so no fault will show on OBDII scanners. And (almost) all emissions-related faults will flag up the EML anyway, which is an automatic fail in itself, so no scanner needed....

All that would be needed would be to try and enter the Exhaust After treatment module (goes by differing names). If cannot access it that would be a fail.

 

[MarcusS212]

Why some people still buy these MB Diesel cars with the AdBlue system, is beyond me... come-on people, do some research - a quick Google reveals all, no need for AI....

For me it really wasn't much of a choice. I wanted an S212 and the final model year is usually the best, found a 2016 E 220d with 4Matic at the right price. I figured when the NOx sensors and the AdBlue starts acting up I'll have it deleted with some programming, will be cheaper than repairing the crap... I did my homework and made an informed decision.

On my way home from the M-B dealership where I bought the car check engine light came on. Went straight back, and of course it was a NOx sensor gone bad... They replaced it immediately, and it probably won't be a problem again for a couple of years. But when it does it'll be deleted.

 

[markjay]

For me it really wasn't much of a choice. I wanted an S212 and the final model year is usually the best, found a 2016 E 220d with 4Matic at the right price. I figured when the NOx sensors and the AdBlue starts acting up I'll have it deleted with some programming, will be cheaper than repairing the crap... I did my homework and made an informed decision.

On my way home from the M-B dealership where I bought the car check engine light came on. Went straight back, and of course it was a NOx sensor gone bad... They replaced it immediately, and it probably won't be a problem again for a couple of years. But when it does it'll be deleted.

Understood. Wishing you many thousands of miles of troublefree motoring. I take it that the potential insurance implications of having an undeclared modification are not a worry for you, then?

 

[MarcusS212]

Understood. Wishing you many thousands of miles of troublefree motoring. I take it that the potential insurance implications of having an undeclared modification are not a worry for you, then?

As of now, and in the foreseeable future, there's no way of knowing about such modification here in Sweden. It's basically the same as with engine tuning, not permitted but impossible to detect and no way to enforce it.

Our MOT can't detect it, would require a very deep dive into the electronic management systems that's practicality impossible for anyone else than a highly skilled M-B tech. As long as there's no CEL on and emissions are within requirements there won't be a problem.

I remember when AdBlue/urea was still experimented with, I was a test driver/mechanic at a major truck/bus manufacturer here in Sweden at the time. The biggest problems we had at the proving grounds was urea injectors and crystallisation of the fluid. Immediately understood it would be a major service issue when it finally made its way into production vehicles. Unfortunately there's no other feasible way to meet requirements today.

 

[whitenemesis]

Understood. Wishing you many thousands of miles of troublefree motoring. I take it that the potential insurance implications of having an undeclared modification are not a worry for you, then?

As of now, and in the foreseeable future, there's no way of knowing about such modification here in Sweden. It's basically the same as with engine tuning, not permitted but impossible to detect and no way to enforce it.

Our MOT can't detect it, would require a very deep dive into the electronic management systems that's practicality impossible for anyone else than a highly skilled M-B tech. As long as there's no CEL on and emissions are within requirements there won't be a problem.

And that's almost certainly what would happen if the vehicle was involved in a serious accident, with personal injuries and potential high insurance claims. The insurer would try everything to recover costs

 

[Gazwould]

NOX is nothing to do with saving the planet or climate change....its all to do with air quality in cities......so him going on about the planet is slightly misleading.

And who gets subjected to the most pollution in a city ?

 

[markjay]

As of now, and in the foreseeable future, there's no way of knowing about such modification here in Sweden. It's basically the same as with engine tuning, not permitted but impossible to detect and no way to enforce it.

Our MOT can't detect it, would require a very deep dive into the electronic management systems that's practicality impossible for anyone else than a highly skilled M-B tech. As long as there's no CEL on and emissions are within requirements there won't be a problem.

I remember when AdBlue/urea was still experimented with, I was a test driver/mechanic at a major truck/bus manufacturer here in Sweden at the time. The biggest problems we had at the proving grounds was urea injectors and crystallisation of the fluid. Immediately understood it would be a major service issue when it finally made its way into production vehicles. Unfortunately there's no other feasible way to meet requirements today.

On the contrary... its easily detected by anyone who has STAR and knows how to use it. Like the accident forensic experts that the insurer employs in the event of a hefty payout. Do you really think that forensic experts do not know about engine remapping, AdBlue delete, DPF Delete, etc..? That only people who use Internet forums know about these things? Where you do have a point, is that this will only ever happen when a huge payout is due, but not for simple claims.

 

[MarcusS212]

And that's almost certainly what would happen if the vehicle was involved in a serious accident, with personal injuries and potential high insurance claims. The insurer would try everything to recover costs

Nope, not an issue here.
Rules are insurance companies must prove the modification have played a role in causing the accident to deny a claim.

An AdBlue/NOx sensor delete in itself won't affect safety like that in any aspect. And such a deep dive is extremely unlikely, definitely bordering "never gonna happen."

 

[Gazwould]

An AdBlue/NOx sensor delete in itself won't affect safety like that in any aspect. And such a deep dive is extremely unlikely, definitely bordering "never gonna happen."

It does affect safety as it means less time spent broke down on the side of the road .

 

[MarcusS212]

On the contrary... its easily detected by anyone who has STAR and knows how to use it. Like the accident forensic experts that the insurer employs in the event of a hefty payout. Do you really think that forensic experts do not know about engine remapping, AdBlue delete, DPF Delete, etc..? That only people who use Internet forums know about these things? Where you do have a point, is that this will only ever happen when a huge payout is due, but not for simple claims.

That kind of research is extremely unlikely to happen here. My dad totalled his Volvo estate on the motorway a few years back, rear ended a 40 ft container trailer (not his fault, but the car who caused the accident just drove away). No forensics at all, just as usual.



Of course it happens, but only when there are obvious clues the car has been modified and tuned. A normal estate car driven by a middle aged dad in Sweden? Without neon/led lights and a stove pipe exhaust? Nope. Not an issue here. I'm well aware of the policies of my insurance company.

 

[markjay]

That kind of research is extremely unlikely to happen here. My dad totalled his Volvo estate on the motorway a few years back, rear ended a 40 ft container trailer (not his fault, but the car who caused the accident just drove away). No forensics at all, just as usual.

Of course it happens, but only when there are obvious clues the car has been modified and tuned. A normal estate car driven by a middle aged dad in Sweden? Without neon/led lights and a stove pipe exhaust? Nope. Not an issue here. I'm well aware of the policies of my insurance company.

You may be right. Hopefully, you'll never find out....

 

[MarcusS212]

You may be right. Hopefully, you'll never find out....

Well, the views on these matters are definitely different in Sweden vs. the UK.
I have lots of experience on technical and legal matters and I'm not the least worried.

 

[BTB 500]

My ex father-in-law was 'chief motor engineer' for a UK household name insurer, and his job was to manage a team of 200 or so technicians who got sent out to go over insured cars with a fine tooth comb in the event of a significant claim. Anything non-standard and undeclared gave them the option of attempting to recover third party payouts from the policyholder, and/or initiating a prosecution for insurance fraud. This was 20 years ago and even then 'chipping' or 'remapping' was one of the first things they checked for. They must have saved the company enough money to pay for maintaining the department, or they wouldn't have bothered having it.

 

[QUIGO]

Not a reply but struggling to post a question regarding my 1990 190 e automatic regarding steering lock replacement for an automatic

 

[markjay]

My ex father-in-law was 'chief motor engineer' for a UK household name insurer, and his job was to manage a team of 200 or so technicians who got sent out to go over insured cars with a fine tooth comb in the event of a significant claim. Anything non-standard and undeclared gave them the option of attempting to recover third party payouts from the policyholder, and/or initiating a prosecution for insurance fraud. This was 20 years ago and even then 'chipping' or 'remapping' was one of the first things they checked for. They must have saved the company enough money to pay for maintaining the department, or they wouldn't have bothered having it.

Sounds about right! Might be different in Sweden, though.