Oh why oh why did I change to new shape S Class. Problems. Problems. Problems.

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kyber

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Joined
Sep 22, 2002
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11
My first Mercedes was an old shape S-class (1995) - is that a W140? - which I kept for 5 years. It was starting to look a little tired and I had put 100,000 onto the clock since buying it and did not really fit the right image for my job so I decided to update. Lovely car. Did not really want to sell.

I decided to stick with Mercedes and indeed with S-class. Found a S320 petrol 65K 2001 example from a local posh cars dealer for a good price. Found it a little smaller than the old model but pleased with the gadgets. Aware of the mpg/performance issues with the 320 petrol and its replacement with a 350 (and undercutting by a 320 diesel) but that all helped to bring the price down. (Might add LPG, what do you think?)

Only one thing was not comfortable about was steering seemed a little stiff. Got dealer to have a full consumer level RAC inspection on it (I paid the difference between the basic consumer and the full consumer survey). No problems.

The dealer provided a GOLD level RAC Warranty. (Not connected to the RAC inspection - they just need a garage to tell them that the car is okay.)

Within a few weeks that slightly stiff steering turned into near impossibility at low speeds and I nearly got stuck in a multi-story car park. Local specialist, Castec, (used by the dealer - perhaps not the smartest move on my part) in Wolverhampton diagnosed faulty power steering and carried out a replacement. RAC paid for parts and most of labour (I paid the difference between the labour rates the RAC pay for and the garage's labour rates - £10 per hour gap.).

Drove off happily and was really happy as steering felt better than ever.

Following day on a drive up to Wilmslow (about 60 miles north of home) suddenly get a warning ding and a red display telling me: AIRMATIC. STOP. CAR TOO LOW. Eeeek!

Manual says can drive on below 50mph and no tight turns. Get to Wilmslow, call RAC. They tell me to get it to a garage for diagnosis. Ask for suggestions and they come up with some generic national auto company but add that they probably do not have the equipment/knowledge to diagnose the problem.

Find local service/dealer on MB website. McLean and Appleton in Macclesfield. They have been extremely helpful. I am working in Wilmslow for the week. They booked the car in for the following day for diagnosis and arranged to lend me a car.

Dropped it off 8am the following day (Wednesday) and they gave me a nice Mercedes C-class coupe to play with. They called Direct Line for me who arranged cover on the loan car without charge.

The service manager called me during the day. Found the problem. Need to check a couple of things out. Have spoke to RAC. Will be able to fix and have me back on the road by the end of next day (Thursday). However, the loan car is booked to someone else for Thursday. Very sorry. Mistake on their part. Would I mind if they swapped me over to something else? No problem. The service manager lives in Wilmslow so he arranged to come to my hotel last night and give me the keys to a nice Jeep and take the Merc away. I called Direct Line from the car park. Once the Scottish call handler had stopped laughing, she changed my insurance over to cover the Jeep, again without charge.

Jeep was fun to drive. Fingers crossed that I get my car back tonight (Thursday). Hope driving it did not cause substantial damage! Given these guys labour costs are £95 per hour, I am not looking forward to the bill although I think (hope) they have a special arrangement for RAC warranty related work.

Frankly, I do not care that much, just want the car fixed and reliable. The proof for the dealer will be in actually turning my car around and charging me fairly with the RAC taking the may hit. I shall let you know. I am impressed by the dealer's responsiveness and helpfulness though.

The dealer suggested a £95+vat check over the car in addition to the other work. I know this is money for old rope but under the circumstances (and given their responsiveness and the free loan car(s) ) I decided to go for this for peace of mind. I they get things sorted out I will not begrudge them this extra.

I do wonder if I bought a lemon though. The last owner only had the car for size months. (Another reason I wanted the RAC inspection.)

I find it surprising that I have experienced such major faults so soon after a full inspection. I am also surprised that a Mercedes S-Class with only 65K on the clock (well, 68 now) is having such problems. My previous car had three times this mileage and did not have problems. One of the reasons for sticking with Mercedes!

Fingers crossed. My wife changed her car recently and chose BMW over Mercedes. Maybe I need to look at a BMW Series 7 instead.
 
This is the main reason i won't change my S class for the newer shape one!

Forum member aka$h has a S320 CDI 2001 model with 70K on the clock. It needs some suspension components, engine mounts and other bits totalling a sum of £3-4K!! And its not the first time its gone wrong either!
 
All of the car inspections in the world wont tell you what errors are stored in a cars memory.

You paid peanuts and got .... not much at all. The only way to diagnose a car is to put a Mercedes daignostic on it and read out the faults stored in memory. Then speak to a senior mechanic at a dealership and ask them if these are common, typical or expected.

I did a similar thing with an S600 of the same vintage. I asked the owner if "car too low" ever appeared in the cluster. He looked me blank in the face and told me NEVER. The new owner went into the garage a few days later and found the nose resting on the front tyres. Since he lied to the new owner .... you know the rest.

But one thing for sure .... the diagnostic doesnt lie and the car is an elephant with a long memory. These two bit garages dont know how to read these faults and looking at the car doesnt prove a darn thing.
 
W220 is notorious for electronic/suspension related failures. Early models are the worse but face lift cars are ok.

Ideally, you should have gone for the !£95 plus VAT check" prior to the purchase.

Early models are cheap as they have been hit by depreciation and most people that are selling pre face lift ones are probably due the vehicles being “problematic”. £12000 will get you V/W plate…

It is wise to have a Stealer check out a used W220 prior to purchase as STAR will pick up fault codes stored in the vehicles’ memory/ECU system (Stealers are good at finding faults as STAR would pick up on most of them… :rolleyes: )
 
With a complex car like that I'd personally want to buy "approved used" from an M-B dealer with an M-B warranty, for all the reasons already mentioned.
 
Whenever buying a used car there is always the elememnt of "risk" of it being a lemon. Only advnatge of buying new is the 3YRS warranty that comes from the manufactuerer. Unfortuantely, MB sell "lemons" too under their Approved Signature car scheme but you still get a bit of "piece of mind" as MB would be responsible for it for 1 year.
 
Flash said:
Unfortuantely, MB sell "lemons" too under their Approved Signature car scheme but you still get a bit of "piece of mind" as MB would be responsible for it for 1 year.
You get "peace of mind" with a warranty. "Piece of mind" is what you give them when it breaks! :)
 
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MB "Approved Used" means all the boxes on the form they give you have been ticked and if car breaks in the next 12 months they fix it It doesnt mean anything else. It definitely DOESNT mean everything is ok with all the boxes they ticked.

I bought an "Approved Used" SLK 6 months ago. No service book, no instruction book, pre-sale service incompetenty done, no HPI check done. Took me more than 3 months to iron out the problems and all ok now.
 
I could probably have got an approved used for around the same amount but, er, didn't. Bought with convenience in mind. Mistake. Live and learn.

Dealer has called me, repairs are underway. No additional damager relating to the airtronic failure, just needs replacement. Has been refered to a supervisor at RAC but dealer is not expecting there to be a problem. I have authorised them to proceed at my risk - I really need my car back today.

There check over also found a leaking gearbox. Not covered under warranty. £150 to fix. I agreed to him getting this done. I may be being taken for a ride but would rather start of with some trust. Will ask for an report on the work so can follow up with RAC inspection and car dealer.
 
I've just noticed kyber: you joined in Sep 2002 and only today made your only 2 posts?!!!!!

Thats got to be some sort of record?

Hope you get it sorted chap.
 
I was having so much fun reading and did not feel I had anything to contribute... usually I am a regular contributer to forums but as you can probably work out from the above: I really really do not know much about cars.
 
Last edited:
Your leaking gearbox is almost certainly genuine. They have a common failure of the seal and/or electrical conection plug.
There are modified parts which can be variable but the dealer will know what to do and will cover the repair with a 2 year warranty. This applies to all repairs carried out in an approved workshop. Ask for clarification.
 
Flash said:
Early models are the worse but face lift cars are ok.

Nothing new there: as an engineer (software & electronics) I know from my own experience not to buy the first version of any new product be it car, washing machine or jumbo jet.

The new S class will be released with a post-launch bug-fix team: they will collate all the STAR and warranty claims info. Also, there will be a component cost-down team who will reduce the cost of every part.

Modifications will be then be introduced usually every 6 months' production: the model that is 2/3rds through its life span will have the optimal balance of good bug fixes versus not-too-many cost-down components.

This is why, on average, the later build versions of a current car perform better than the new model that replaces it.
 
You ought to have been able to get the supplying dealer to either pay for repairs, or take the car back. Consumer legislation for used cars now deems that most faults that occur within 6 mths were probably present when the car was sold, so are down to supplier to fix.
Selling cars like used S Class's must be a nightmare for independant dealers - a couple of bad ones could put them out of business.
 
kyber said:
Fingers crossed. My wife changed her car recently and chose BMW over Mercedes. Maybe I need to look at a BMW Series 7 instead.

hehe, i did just that! didnt regret either, even though i thought i would :devil:
 
ddentrec said:
This is why, on average, the later build versions of a current car perform better than the new model that replaces it.

So true......
 
I have always waited a couple of years before i bought a new model, did that with the W220, bought it in 2002 touch wood nothing has gone wrong with it. Mind you i took a two year extended MB warranty though just to be safe side.
I will wait a couple of years before i buy the W221, or when they bring the facelift version out.
 
ddentrec said:
Modifications will be then be introduced usually every 6 months' production: the model that is 2/3rds through its life span will have the optimal balance of good bug fixes versus not-too-many cost-down components.

What an excellent informative post, but I would perhaps cite the 211 as being a very slight exception. The first year was possibly just as you described, then the vehicle was loaded with standard fittings that proved to be too expensive to produce and still make a competitive profit. From mid 2004 the vehicle has steadily seen pieces removed simply to save money. Accountants clearly were dictating the specification of the vehicle, reliability has steadied and I do not believe a 2005/6 is any more reliable than the early 2004?


I think you have been very sensible getting the car to the main dealer, these vehicles are getting far too complex for 'small' garages to deal with.

Good luck in getting it fixed and happy motoring,

Regards,
John
 
glojo said:
What an excellent informative post, but I would perhaps cite the 211 as being a very slight exception. The first year was possibly just as you described, then the vehicle was loaded with standard fittings that proved to be too expensive to produce and still make a competitive profit. From mid 2004 the vehicle has steadily seen pieces removed simply to save money. Accountants clearly were dictating the specification of the vehicle, reliability has steadied and I do not believe a 2005/6 is any more reliable than the early 2004?


I think you have been very sensible getting the car to the main dealer, these vehicles are getting far too complex for 'small' garages to deal with.

Good luck in getting it fixed and happy motoring,

Regards,
John

Hi John,

These cars are complex, but probably better served by the smaller (enthusiastic) independent garage with good equipement and tools. They will test correctly and only replace parts that are needed rather than just 'throw parts at it' until it is fixed that some main dealers have a habit of doing.
I actually own one of these 'holes in the wall' garages that is tooled to deal with modern vehicles as well as providing good staff training. We do not operate a mechanics bonus system based on productivity, that undervalues good workmanship and gives plenty of quality problems.
I think that good independent garages (e.g. Bosch Service Agents - like myself) are a real alternative to the franchised dealer with the financial benefits being so enormous.

Regards
 
jgevers said:
I think that good independent garages (e.g. Bosch Service Agents - like myself) are a real alternative to the franchised dealer with the financial benefits being so enormous.

Regards

I hold these garages in very high regard, but feel there are certain limitations to what can be done. Do you rember how I asked about active headlights? Or resolving issues simply by using a flash upgrade which is usually a free improvement.

If I went to a Bosch Service Agent (NOT YOU ;) ) and asked them to give me the facility to play Mp3's in my car, would they have the expert knowledge to say, "Certainly sir, I have a flash DVD that will give you a free upgrade to the system you have!" Or would they install a piece of entertainment equipment that would play these musical files? I can guess the answer and hopefully so can you.

I am NOT criticising you, or any of the excellent independant garages out there. Hopefully I am simply being realistic? Independants can do an excellent job, KLP has illustrated that.

Regardws,
John
 

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