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camerontyler

Active Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
77
Location
Near Lockerbie
Car
C 220 CDI 51 Plate
Hello all, long time no post!

2 days ago I put my beloved W203 C220 CDI into kwik-fit for an oil change.

The car isn't due a service for a good while but I thought I would, as a good will gesture for being good over the winter, give the car a fresh load of oil.

I confirmed with them on the phone and before the replacement that they would use Mobil 1 5w30 Fully Synthetic.

When driving away from kwik-fit (at closing time) I noticed the car wouldn't change gear. I pulled over, restarted the engine and it was fine.

I went out again yesterday for a new bulb. After picking it up I drove the car and it did it again.

I stopped at kwik-fit and asked them if this would have anything to do with the oil change.
The man I assume to be the manager was quick to jump in and tell me that it would have nothing to do with them and my ATF fluid needs replaced.
He also stated he knew this because he had worked for Mercedes all his life.
I queried that it seems a bit odd for this to happen as soon as the engine oil is replaced. He then asked how many miles it had done.
I said almost 46k, he said, ah yes it's definately your ATF fluid it usually needs changed at 45k. (note : haynes manual says 30k)
I then asked how much they charge, he replied we don't do it you'll have to go to Mercedes.

Today I took a trip to Edinburgh for my grandmothers 89th birthday lunch (45 miles each way).
After being on the road for 10 mins a red warning message came up telling me my oil has been overfilled.
I had to continue my journey as I couldn't miss such an important family meeting.
During the journey I noticed a few nasty gear changes (no noises) just a bit harsh and twice I had to bump the gear manually with the gear stick up to take the revs out of the redline (nothing i've ever had to do before (infact i've never seen it in the redline before).
I also noticed once or twice some lovely blue smoke coming from the exhaust area.
After lunch whilst driving home (while the engine was still cold) I had to stop and start 3 times until the gearbox started changing gear itself.
Not pleasant may I add when you are about the join the city bypass! (where driving like a decent human being is frowned upon may I add).

I noticed on the trip I used alot more fuel than usual for the length of the journey (90 miles, over 1/4 of a tank!).

When I arrived home I contacted my mechanically minded friend and he advised me to take the car back to Kwik Fit first thing (lucky the Mrs and I are both on holiday this week) and get them to drain off some of the oil and keep doing that until I have no more warning lights.

He suggested that in regards to the gearbox issue (and possibly the fuel) through some mechanical speak, he suggested the engine may be having to work harder and there could be too much oil pressure that is effecting the cam.

Can anyone please express their opinions on the matter and pass on any good advice (except never use Kwik Fit; my ears are already sore after a 55 minute ear bashing from the mechanic friend, in my defence, it was just an oil change, even I could do it if i wasn't scared of breaking things and getting dirty!).

One last thing, on my receipt it says
"LYDL OIL SERVICE SYNT S £39.95
OFIL213/6.5 OIL FILTER 1"

Does anyone else fear the S after SYNT means 'semi'?
Also, shouldn't it state on the receipt was oil was use i.e. 5w30?
 
Cripes Cameron hope you get this sorted pronto. Sorry I cannot help on the specific questions. I'm sure our techies will be along soon to help.
 
a possibility is the spanners down at quick fit could of sucked the atf out instead of the engine oil, the two fillers are right beside each other on the d/s under the bonnet and then overfilled the engine oil
i have seen this happen before
hope this helps.
 
Bloody hell I forgot some of these places use vacuums to get the oil out. Worth the check that is for sure. Good call Irish E55.

The manager of KF may have worked with Mercedes forever but have his young spanner wranglers.
 
ATF filler tube "should" have a tamper proof seal on it, see if this has been broken.
 
People have told you a lot of nonsense from the sounds of it.

The engine oil level sensor is very sensitive, I assume it only activated after a while when the engine got really hot (oil expansion)... If so the oil is probably just at the max mark and only a small amount needs to be removed to stop it triggering...
A pretty common issue that occurs if you use the "book" amount of oil.

I cant see the gearbox thing being related, you need to get it to a Mercedes specialist or dealer to check the level and quality of the oil.
You may well have a leak, probably at the electrical plug... fluid drips onto the exhaust and would cause your smoke.
 
Thanks Jay. Don't you think it's a tad odd though that this problem only occurred as soon as I drove away from KF? I hadnt even turned off the car, it was literally there we are sir see you again and off I went without a gear change. I'd never suffered an issue with it before, ever. Not looking for an argument just your valued oppinion.

Andy - do I remove the plastics and it will be easy to find - sorry - dunce.... (checked haynes manual, cant find a picture, lol)

John, thank you for your concern :)
 
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+1. The oil might be very slightly too high, but nothing to worry about. Most people don't fill to the line so that this does not happen. Can't see (other than coincidence) that this has anything to do with the gear change.

And KF did my oil change last year, with no drama. A lot of nonsense is spoken about KF...after all this is just a bloody oil change.
 
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Good morning MBClub, any more opinions out there?

Yes! That what is posted by Irish E55 exists as a possibility it should be investigated.
I know that people here know the car and that I don't, but the symptoms, and the potential for engine damage due to significant overfill to me overrides mere coincidence and over sensitive monitoring equipment as explanations.
Probably I am being over conservative, but if it was my car I would be checking the worst case scenarios as matter of course.
 
Away to head down to KF and get some oil removed, then heading to an independant garage to see if there has been any damage done due to the overfill. First thing I will check will be the tamperproof seal over the ATF. If that's been touched I think my next port of call will be trading standards as the last people to touch the car prior to the oil change were a mercedes dealership who have serviced the car from new.

Will report back later.

Thanks everyone.
 
+1. The oil might be very slightly too high, but nothing to worry about. Most people don't fill to the line so that this does not happen. Can't see (other than coincidence) that this has anything to do with the gear change.

And KF did my oil change last year, with no drama. A lot of nonsense is spoken about KF...after all this is just a bloody oil change.

+2,had the same overfill problem with my cls500 when i collected it in october(dealer had topped engine oil up to max while warm,oil expanded when i drove it causing sensor to trigger overfill)you may need to have a bit drained off,most mb service depts now only refill upto halfway between min & max when changing oil for this reason.
 
Away to head down to KF and get some oil removed, then heading to an independant garage to see if there has been any damage done due to the overfill. First thing I will check will be the tamperproof seal over the ATF. If that's been touched I think my next port of call will be trading standards as the last people to touch the car prior to the oil change were a mercedes dealership who have serviced the car from new.

Will report back later.

Thanks everyone.


Think you need to be realistic here.. do you have proof the tamper proof seal was there before KF touched your car? They have normally dissapeared.
 
A word of advice...never, ever, ever go near these folks again...take your bitter medicine like a man, move on and learn from your experience.

Engine Oil: Only go to a recommended independent MB garage. Overfilling can cause more problems and damage to your engine than under-filling (providing oil pressure is not lost). If you are worried about the type and quality of your oil, then have it and your oil filter changed again...it only costs about the same as a full tank of fuel...

Auto Trans Fluid: This will normally only be changed in conjunction with a new ATF filter and sump seal. The anti-tamper seal costs only a few cents to buy and replace...so take heed that that it's good health may be meaningless...
 
A word of advice...never, ever, ever go near these folks again...take your bitter medicine like a man, move on and learn from your experience.

Engine Oil: Only go to a recommended independent MB garage. Overfilling can cause more problems and damage to your engine than under-filling (providing oil pressure is not lost). If you are worried about the type and quality of your oil, then have it and your oil filter changed again...it only costs about the same as a full tank of fuel...

Auto Trans Fluid: This will normally only be changed in conjunction with a new ATF filter and sump seal. The anti-tamper seal costs only a few cents to buy and replace...so take heed that that it's good health may be meaningless...

So you think they went out and bought a new seal? Get real. They may be cheap, but they take time to buy depending on how close to the dealer the KF is. Even MB overfill...this is a coincidence.
 
Hi renault,

No, as far as I can surmise from camerontyler's post is that he had an oil change and immediately afterward he suffered:

1. Overfill engine oil warning.
2. Automatic gearchange problems.
3. Blue smoke from exhaust.
4. Excessive fuel consumption.
5. Suspicion about oil type used for refill, as Mobil 1 wasn't designated on the Invoice.

I am pretty sure that the ATF fluid wasn't touched as the service manager said they didn't do that type of work and recommended him to go to Mercedes. So I think that the the ATF seal discussion is a red herring.

In my humble opinion, I don't like what I read about the service he has received, so I respectfully suggest that cameron goes to a recommended Mercedes service provider...I am on the other side of the world, so I can't help him here with regards to whom...
 
Agreed, I think its a red herring too. Also agree Mobil 1 may not have been used...it is specified on the invoice I have. But I also don't think an overfill (which is very common on these cars) would account for the gearbox problems.

We'll wait and see what transpires.

Regards.
 
Gearbox issue is not connected to the oil change imho,i doubt very much that kf would use mobil 1,you know where not to take it in future.
 
If they used a decent 5w30 fully synthetic, I wouldnt get too caught up on the brand.. there are only a handful of manufacturers of fully synthetic oil in the world and as long as its rated to MB spec then its fine for the car.
 
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Good evening everyone,

After a relatively eventful day this is where I now stand.

Went to KF, manager seemed a tad pi**ed off that one of his staff had overfilled, giving the expression that it was a rookie mistake.

Rather than just remove some oil he instructed one of his staff to replace the whole lot. He'd expressed his knowledge of Mercedes previously and agreed there should be 5.5-6ltrs put in (think BlackC55 said that in another post).

After an apology from one of the mechanics (im pretty sure he didn't work on it the first time though) and a cheerio off I went.
The car felt better, less sluggish and after a short trip my MPG was alot better than yesterday (on the computer anyway). After 3 miles (warmup) I again got an overfill warning but the car definately felt better.
Unfortunately the problem with the gear box is still there.
I went along to a local mechanic and we discussed the situation.
We looked at the ATF dip stick slot which only has a red stopper in it, it did not have a tamper seal.
We had a look under the plastics to see if anything was wrong under there as he informed me there would be no reason for KF to remove them as the port is accessible above the plastics. Nothing wrong there, but it doesnt make much sense as to why they were removed and the (rather young) mechanic struggled so much to put them back on.
Don't think I mentioned this before but the guy was literally bouncing the car up and down whilst up on the ramps quite violently which his friend said was to replace the plastics.

Where we ended up stuck is with this dilema -

If KF used the vacuum technique to remove the oil rather than a good old drainage (which I didn't see them doing) did they perhaps take the ATF dipstick for the oil dipstick and start to vacuum from there before realising they were using the wrong one.
If they did use a vacuum he wasn't sure how they would be able to do this via the ordinary port as he believes there's no tube all the way to the sump so they wouldn't be able to remove all the oil.

To conclude he recommended getting the car to Merc (or Merc Indie) getting it on STAR and reading the levels from there if they can (plus any other codes) or using the proper dipsticks if they have them to check the ATF fluid and get the oil level checked properly while im at it.

He suggested we could put a little ATF fluid in to make sure it's alright but then I would run the risk of over filling if it isn't low and it would be at my own risk.
I will just make sure the car is nicely warmed up before I goto the Indie (about 50 miles away :-s) as it seems to be OK once the oil is up to temperature.

He felt that the car is definately showing symptoms of low ATF fluid but there are no visible leaks so it's a 'mystery' as to where it has gone. But with no admission of mistake from KF I will just have to pay to have the fault found.

I will post a further update as and when.
Thanks for all your help, support and opinions.

Cameron
 

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