Oil

Discussion in 'Parts, Maintenance & Servicing' started by clk320x, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. clk320x

    clk320x MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    7,207
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Location:
    England
    Car:
    Mercedes
    So if I am not mistaken my E320CDi needs 229.5 spec (no DPF)

    229.5 oil from Merc directly is 5w40. At least that’s what MB tell me.

    Now my question is, why can’t I use 0w40? Surely all this will mean is that there is better protection from cold? Mobil1 0w40 meets 229.5 too. So surely this should be fine? or is it best to simply stick to 5w40 (from Merc)

    Mobil1 is slightly more expensive, but in this case I am not bothered. I can collect it tomorrow and get it done straight away.

    Mobil1 - £60/10L
    MB branded - £39/10L

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  2. E55BOF

    E55BOF Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    4,593
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Location:
    South Bucks
    Car:
    S212 E63, R230 SL500, FJR1300, Caponord, Yamaha Bulldog
    Just do it. It will be fine.
     
    clk320x likes this.
  3. Gazwould

    Gazwould Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    167
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2018
    Location:
    Somerset
    Car:
    S204 C250 CDI AMG Sport
    No reason why you couldn't use a 0W as cold flow and warm up viscosity has less drag thus mpg will be improved .

    No reason why you couldn't use a 229.51 as it's performance perameters are similar , find one with VW 504.00 507.00 and it will be even better as less wear .
     
    clk320x likes this.
  4. markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    18,466
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Location:
    London
    Car:
    W204 C180 Executive SE 2013 Automatic / COMAND NTG4.7 and Morel speakers fitted by www.comand.co.uk
    The higher figure is not dependant on ambient temperature (because the oil temperature is regulated once the engine reaches operating temperatures, typically 96-102 degrees).

    40 oil is simply thicker than 30 oil once the engine reaches normal operating temperature. The choice between 30 or 40 oil is yours. Generally high-mileage engines like thicker oils (because gaps becomes bigger due to wear), but some engines simply perform better with thinner or thicker oil.


    The lower figure is the viscosity of the oil when the engine is cold, and this does depend on ambient temperature (because at cold start the engine oil will be at a similar temperature to the surrounding air).

    Given the mild year-round temperatures in most of the UK, 0w oil will be slightly too thin on most days. So I would go for 5w. But the difference isn't huge and if you can only get 0w-40 oil from the brand you prefer, then this is fine. Also, 0w oil will make starting the engine little bit easier on the battery.


    Incidentally, one of the things that happen to oil when it ages, is that its winter viscosity goes up. So you get much more engine wear on cold starts with old oil.

    For this reason MB actually recommend to renew the engine oil just before the winter starts.


    And last... if you want to ensure you buy 'high quality' oil (as opposed to oil that just meets the MB standard), then Shell helix Ultra is among the best there is.

    For full disclosure... personally I am not fussed about oil as long as it meets the MB standard, but I can understand those who are.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
    GeeJayW, PaulG and clk320x like this.
  5. Gazwould

    Gazwould Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    167
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2018
    Location:
    Somerset
    Car:
    S204 C250 CDI AMG Sport
    That thickening is due to soot and Shell possibly superior as it's group 3 oil basestock is derived from gas and not crude thus will have less impurities .
     
    clk320x likes this.
  6. OP
    OP
    clk320x

    clk320x MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    7,207
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Location:
    England
    Car:
    Mercedes
    I didn’t know that. That sounds good.

    10L Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 for £46 from ECP :)

    Is Shell Helix Ultra better than Mobil1 then?

    I normally just buy the stuff from MB that comes in the Merc bottle. Who knows what’s in that though. Probably Petronas? :) Only reason I’m not doing so this time is I don’t want to wait for delivery.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    clk320x

    clk320x MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    7,207
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Location:
    England
    Car:
    Mercedes
    Last 2 Services I have used 229.51.

    However, I read that 229.5 has a better lubricating effect. As my car has no DPF I have no reason to use low ash oil? :)
     
  8. Gazwould

    Gazwould Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    167
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2018
    Location:
    Somerset
    Car:
    S204 C250 CDI AMG Sport
    It's all about oil basestocks and the additive package .

    229.5 V 229.51

    2018-10-02 22.59.37.png

    No loss of lubrication here !

    When VW did the same they improved lubricity because the ordinary oil was group 3 oil basestock + additive package and low saps is group 3 , 4 and 5 with a higher overall concentration additive package ( PD & LongLife oil ).
     
    clk320x likes this.
  9. Gazwould

    Gazwould Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    167
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2018
    Location:
    Somerset
    Car:
    S204 C250 CDI AMG Sport
    Saying Shell Helix Ultra V Mobil 1 is vague as there's different versions of them .

    However Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W30 is good as it's also VW 504.00 507.00 so you get the higher anti wear and it's 229.52 which is a more fuel efficient version of 229.51 , also a C2 more fuel efficient version of a C3 but the 229.52 incorporates that .
     
    clk320x likes this.
  10. OP
    OP
    clk320x

    clk320x MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    7,207
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Location:
    England
    Car:
    Mercedes
    Thinking about it now, my choices are either:

    - Mercedes OEM 229.5 or 51, at £40ish/10L.
    - Mobil1 0w40 from Costco, at £60ish/10L.
    - Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 ECP, £48ish/10L.

    These are what I can pick up tomorrow and then get the job done Thursday.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    clk320x

    clk320x MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    7,207
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Location:
    England
    Car:
    Mercedes
     
  12. Gazwould

    Gazwould Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    167
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2018
    Location:
    Somerset
    Car:
    S204 C250 CDI AMG Sport
    Just keep it cheap and simple go for the oem Merc oil .
     
    markjay and clk320x like this.
  13. OP
    OP
    clk320x

    clk320x MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    7,207
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Location:
    England
    Car:
    Mercedes
    So you think I should just go for 229.51 after all? ;-)

    Appreciate the advice/assistance ;)
     
  14. KillerHERTZ

    KillerHERTZ Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    16,213
    Joined:
    May 21, 2003
    Location:
    Cambridge
    Car:
    CLS63 AMG
    Its an W211 Estate with a high Mileage not a Pagani Zonda!

    Why waste money? just get the Mercedes OEM. :doh:
     
    lordlee, Petrol Pete and DSM10000 like this.
  15. Gazwould

    Gazwould Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    167
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2018
    Location:
    Somerset
    Car:
    S204 C250 CDI AMG Sport
    This is it , it's all about cost verses associated benefits .

    The Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5L is only ever £31-35 when on offer .

    A cheaper alternative is Granville Hyperlube Evo although it's 229.51 and not 229.52 like M1 , the .52 is desirable because of the fuel saving .

    Is the Genuine Benz .52 available cheaply ?

    For my first oil change I used Quantum LongLife III a VW marketed and owned oil , approved VW 504.00 507.00 so extra protection over the MB specs and has a recommendation not approval of 229.51 , 5L of this from TPS was sub £19 on offer .

    At some point I'll use Asda's own 504.00 507.00 ( Tetrosyl ) this varries from £14 - £31 on their mind boggling yo-yo price marketing platform , thus I only buy when sub £20 .
     
    a111r, clk320x and PaulG like this.
  16. pmcgsmurf

    pmcgsmurf Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,160
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Location:
    Scotland
    Car:
    E55 AMG W211, E250 Sport W212, E220 Avant. W211 (and some Imps)
    We only ever just use the 229.51 on our W211 without DPF and W212 with DPF.

    Keeps it simple for us and no chance of ever putting 229.5 into the W212.

    At £62 for 20L from Mercedes or even cheaper if ebay have a code that is a bargain to me and delivered to the door.
     
    clk320x and Gazwould like this.
  17. Yugguy

    Yugguy Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,650
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Location:
    Rugby UK
    Car:
    W204 C220CDI Elegance with Comand
    I've been chucking 229.51 into my none dpf for 3 years now and it's fine.
     
    clk320x likes this.
  18. Will

    Will MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    10,119
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    S212 E63 AMG / S211 E55K AMG / 190E 2.3-16 / 190E 2.5-16 / Porsche 911
    I always find threads like this interesting, as in general non-technical owners of cars (and I don’t mean everyone on this thread) get all gooey over engine oils and frequency of oil changes etc. But how many MBs following the factory schedule have any issues with engine wear or failures due to lack of correct lubrication?

    I’d say MB gearboxes have shorter lifespans than engines but how many people change their ATF at say twice or four times as often as the schedule says like some do with engine oil? Or discuss which is the best brand of ATF etc? How about coolant - who changes that more often than is required?

    I’d personally use any decent quality oil that meets the MB specs, change it on schedule and save my cash for other maintenance items - glow plugs/injectors/turbo etc which will be more likely to give trouble than oil :)
     
  19. classiccarzone

    classiccarzone Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    188
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Location:
    Ireland
    Car:
    S203 CDI estate; S204 Cdi Estate,CL 203 X 2; Daimler V8 250 X3
  20. markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    18,466
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Location:
    London
    Car:
    W204 C180 Executive SE 2013 Automatic / COMAND NTG4.7 and Morel speakers fitted by www.comand.co.uk
    Yes it is a very interesting topic.

    But the question of which is the better engine oil is partially academic anyway.

    Any car serviced with the MB recommended oil at the recommended service intervals should not suffer excessive engine wear within the lifetime of the vehicle.

    So possibly with a 'better' engine oil, the engine will last for (say) 250,000 miles before any significant wear occurs, while with 'mundane' oil (that still meets MB specs) it will last for 'only' 200,000 miles.

    The majority of modern cars get scrapped long before they reach this mileage anyway.

    There are exceptions of course. Some cars are kept for many years and do rack-up this sort mileage, other are used as airport shuttle transport by drivers working shifts; but for the majority of cars the whole issue of engine longevity and life expectancy is purely academic.

    I just go with what MB say - and in my case this means any oil that meets 229.5.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
    GeeJayW, E55BOF and clk320x like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.