Older better than new Mercedes?

[Londonscottish]

The good old ones are better than the bad new ones and the good new ones are better than the bad old ones

Yes but are the good new ones (much) better than the good old ones?

 

[Bellow]

If agree with all that...except the tyres bit!...Modern low profile rubber gives you turn in and control that big old balloon tyres just can't compete with.

As wasted potential goes, they surpass the wristwatch that can survive submersion in 1000m of water but never sees a sink. For the poseurs not drivers.

 

[Darrell]

As wasted potential goes, they surpass the wristwatch that can survive submersion in 1000m of water but never sees a sink. For the poseurs not drivers.

^^ Exactly this.
Does anyone recall the ‘driving shoes’ or the ‘left foot braking in an automatic car’ thread?

 

[Fastcar155]

Hi , many many years ago I had a job that entailed much air travel and car hire.

I used this as extended test drives when hiring cars :

I tried when possible to use the same model from each manufacture and used hired the same model for 6 months.

1990s Mercedes cars well built ( I judged by rattles ) but the manual gearbox was not far short of terrible.

I was really surprised regarding the quality of the South African cars
( Excellent )

Chrysler years : The bean counters took over and it showed.

A well built example was really good but few and far between as the quality was well below where it should have been.

My 2015 Mercedes C207 is well built and very few rattles and the loan cars provided the dealership were fine.

What I like about Mercedes cars through the years that each model was the same to drive in each model year.

My vote would go to the newer Mercedes cars.

 

[ALFAitalia]

For the poseurs not drivers

Most definitely the other way around.....how many REAL sports cars don't have low profiler rubber these days.....none is how many. My 159 feels like a different car with the the 19s on (40 profile) compared to the 17s (50 profile). If you glide around in an S class Id completely agree with you....comfort is king and "on the limit" (or as close as is sensible on the public road) driving is not relevant to that type of car....but in a C or a sporty E that you might want to throw around a bit more, low profiles will feel sharper even to the most insensitive of drivers.

 

[Dryce]

What I like about Mercedes cars through the years that each model was the same to drive in each model year.

I would agree with that. I used to quite like getting the old second generation A class at airports. Not the best car to drive but felt at home in terms of controls aprt from the pedal parking brake.

And the same with the current set - you can switch betweeen an A, C, or E pretty seamlessly (though watch out for the A scrabbling a bit when moving off on wet roads and slippy junction markings with its clutch based auto).

My vote would go to the newer Mercedes cars.

I think the last two generations of A class are much better than the first two generations. Bit bland but very good all-rounders.

The W205 in particularis the modern MB I think is outstanding.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Well when I look at a modern online TV guide with a vast number of channels why is it so hard to find anything I want to watch.

I'd argue that it's the same with technology. Lots of stuff and options but how much actual benefit do you get from all these extra choices and options.

But then I view a dual zone aircon as being unwanted garnish (it wastes an extra dial and the need to push the sync option to make it work properly as a single zone setup).

One of the 'fun' aspects sometimes of getting into a MB rental car is figuring how to get the electronic dash back to some state of sensibility after the previous occupant has messed with it..

Or with the MB touch / swipe steering controls figuring what you accidentally did after accidentally brushing one of the little steering wheel touch buttons while on the motorway in busy traffic.

My luddite hankering after the W211 is that it just worked - and instead of the distracting electronic dash and multicoloured mood lighting garnish it had an advanced braking system that worked amazingly in association with the ESP - and this was just before the period where MB UK went all caveman with the alloy wheel options.

For sure, if you don't want to use Facebook, TikTok, youtube, MBclub, live sports video coverage, or retail apps like Amazon and EBay anywhere , there's no sense in having a modern phone.

Nor if you don't need to keep 10 years worth of photos on hand, the latest ones being to near Leica quality of resolution and colour.

Looking at your car, no-one really needs ABS, distronic, pre-tensioned seatbelts, multiple airbags, reversing and side cameras, voice activated blue toothed phone and spotify / audio streaming, Harmon Kardon or the simplified car design that makes it so easy to replace or repair components that fail or get damaged.

It does seem to be only our elected politicians who "think" that we want reduced pollution, better fuel consumption, and ideally electric running - at least around town, if not for the first 100 miles or even 500 miles. But the politicians are forcing us down that path - even if it means that the young are stepping away from car ownership, either permanently or at least via shared car usership like Zip cars...

 

[Dryce]

For sure, if you don't want to use Facebook, TikTok, youtube, MBclub, live sports video coverage, or retail apps like Amazon and EBay anywhere , there's no sense in having a modern phone.

Well maybe you just want email and decent contact s lookup and something with enough space for a keyboard for texting.

Nor if you don't need to keep 10 years worth of photos on hand, the latest ones being to near Leica quality of resolution and colour.

That's a bit disrepectful to Leica.

Phone cameras are still a bit of a con in terms of perfpormance claims. They do work. Sometimes they work very very well. But the reality is that they are limited by the sensor and the image processing matches well with the limitations of their screens which is where most of the images are viewed. And the thing is that is actually more than good enough.

Looking at your car, no-one really needs ABS, distronic, pre-tensioned seatbelts, multiple airbags, reversing and side cameras, voice activated blue toothed phone and spotify / audio streaming, Harmon Kardon or the simplified car design that makes it so easy to replace or repair components that fail or get damaged.

I took the liberty of boldening that.

My experience of getting even minor parts fixed after damage is that the prices are ridiculously high and that evenb when you get the part you still have to sort out getting it painted if it is a body part.

Tyres are another joke. Too many variations in size and style.

And as for ABS - well I have mentioned SBC more than once ....

It does seem to be only our elected politicians who "think" that we want reduced pollution, better fuel consumption, and ideally electric running - at least around town, if not for the first 100 miles or even 500 miles. But the politicians are forcing us down that path - even if it means that the young are stepping away from car ownership, either permanently or at least via shared car usership like Zip cars...

That's poignant. An increasing number of the under 25s I know have been reluctant to get licences. They leave it until they have to for work or family reasons.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

My experience of getting even minor parts fixed after damage is that the prices are ridiculously high and that evenb when you get the part you still have to sort out getting it painted if it is a body part.

That's poignant. An increasing number of the under 25s I know have been reluctant to get licences. They leave it until they have to for work or family reasons.

I don't understand your comment about parts. It's not that long ago that we were all stuck with buying components from the main dealers or maybe an electrical / brake specialist.

From my perspective it's never been easier to find new or used components, nor components which are used across multiple vehicles thanks to the 21st platform concept that means component sharing across multiple vehicles.

I think we're able to run cars for much longer - in time and mileage - than we did twenty years ago. And that seems to be a trend that's continuing across all manufacturers.

Regarding the young, I'm not sure if you're agreeing but we're certainly pricing and regulating the young out of car ownership.

It looks like we've past "peak car' ownership in the West. But obviously not in the most important part of the World.

 

[Darrell]

An increasing number of the under 25s I know have been reluctant to get licences. They leave it until they have to for work or family reasons.

My daughter is 17 and she’s just got her provisional and has booked her first lessons starting at the end of the month. All her friends have done the same and we all live in London.

My nephew is also 17 and him and his mates have done the same but they live in Newbury so they probably need a car more than my daughter.

 

[davymead]

If the youngsters at the garage are anything to go by, they can’t wait to own their own vehicle.
Try booking a driving test date. So they tell me.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

If the youngsters at the garage are anything to go by, they can’t wait to own their own vehicle.
Try booking a driving test date. So they tell me.

Understood, I was just saying that kids are less likely to own a car in their teens and early twenties than they were thirty years ago.

Thirty years ago learning to drive, and owning your first car, was a rite of passage. Today: not so much.

Nothing unique to the UK, it’s a pan-European thing.

We’re taxing and regulating them off the road.

All the stats are here:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...peoples-travel-whats-changed-exec-summary.pdf

 

[Darrell]

Understood, I was just saying that kids are less likely to own a car in their teens and early twenties than they were thirty years ago.

Thirty years ago learning to drive, and owning your first car, was a rite of passage. Today: not so much.

Nothing unique to the UK, it’s a pan-European thing.

We’re taxing and regulating them off the road.

All the stats are here:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...peoples-travel-whats-changed-exec-summary.pdf

The report was written in 2018.

As an example, my Facebook pages are full of posts of the 17 and 18 year old children of my friends who are either taking their first lessons, passing their test or buying their first car.

 

[BigJase88]

A lot of it will come down to money.

Lessons / cars / insurance is all very expensive now

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The report was written in 2018.

As an example, my Facebook pages are full of posts of the 17 and 18 year old children of my friends who are either taking their first lessons, passing their test or buying their first car.

Obviously.

No-ones suggesting that children aren’t driving at all. The point was that there are dramatically fewer younger drivers than there were in the early 1990’s.

“Driving licensing among young people peaked in 1992/4, with 48% of 17-20 year olds and 75% of 21-29 year olds holding a driving licence.

“By 2014, driving licence holding had fallen to 29% of 17- 20 year olds and 63% of 21-29 year olds.”

“Young people generally travel less now, with the total number of trips per person made by young men falling by 28% between 1995-99 and 2010-14, whilst the number of trips made by young women fell by 24%…..”

“As young adults have moved into their thirties, the proportion with driving licences and the amount they drive has increased, but not so much that their car use has caught up with that seen in previous cohorts. Although there has been variation from year to year, the general trend has been for each cohort of young people since the early 1990s to own and use cars less than the preceding cohort, and for the growth in car use with age to also be at a lower rate. This suggests that their changing behaviour is more than just a postponement of driving.”

We voted to get people out of cars and to make motoring more expensive, and that’s what we’ve achieved, for good Green reasons.

And that trend is continuing - right across Europe

 

[Bellow]

Most definitely the other way around.....how many REAL sports cars don't have low profiler rubber these days.....none is how many. My 159 feels like a different car with the the 19s on (40 profile) compared to the 17s (50 profile). If you glide around in an S class Id completely agree with you....comfort is king and "on the limit" (or as close as is sensible on the public road) driving is not relevant to that type of car....but in a C or a sporty E that you might want to throw around a bit more, low profiles will feel sharper even to the most insensitive of drivers.

You missed my point entirely. I'm not saying lo-pros don't offer enhanced cornering capability, I'm saying that that capability is so rarely exploited as to make them a stupid choice for most people - and even some people most of the time (there are more potholes than clear corners). Why else am I the one having to slow (more than I intended) to avoid getting too close to the car in front on lo-pros mid bend when I'm running 65 profile ATs?

 

[BTB 500]

Try booking a driving test date. So they tell me.

It's about a six month wait in the Guildford area. My step son failed his test in July (having just bought himself a car ), and the earliest re-test date he could get is in January.

 

[PaulMason]

For me, it's older, but for specific reasons. Having recently been in a new GLE and a new A Class saloon, both are tremendous and many ways "better" than my 2004 SLK or 2009 S320 in many regards (particularly the technology). However, for me, a) financially not viable to have 2 new Mercedes and b) I rather like the fact that most people would give up on the time /effort required to keep an 18 year old SLK and a 150k mile S Class going. I'd like to think, my ownership will keep 2 brilliant "old" cars on the road a little longer (which is just as environmentally friendly than the impact of producing 2 new cars I would say)

 

[Spyros777]

If you had raised this question 15 years ago then there would be a stack of responses about the W124 being the last proper E Class.

But 15 years have passed.

I personally think the pre-facelift W211 was the pinnacle followed by a dip in its immediate successors and then a rise. But I'm biased because I had such a car and in the 9 years since I parted with it I have never encountered a better all round motor car. The SBC was controversial but having experienced it keep my day from turning into abad one then I think it was step backwards when they deleted it. Compared with earlier MBs the W211 got 'proper' rack and pinion steering but still had 'proper' hydraulic power assistance. The MB 5 speed automatic transmission was tough and properly sorted in terms of reliability and refinement (yes - the modern ZF and MB epicyclic/torque converter transmissions are better - but the 5 speed set a benchmark where the auto transmission worked properly and almost seamlessly and acceptably). By the time the W211 hit it stride rust wasn't an issue either.

As the moment I think the current A, C, and E Class are very good. The A is a bit bland but in its category the smaller engined petrol and diesel are very good packages - comfortable, nice, eat miles, decent range, acceptable performance - though the DSG style transmission requiers a bit of finessing at times when moving off. The C is good enough to give the E a run for its money. And the E is I think the best large saloon out there.

for the w211. In my top 5 mercs ever. Brilliant chassis