older diesels to be banned from within the M25...

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nick mercedes

MB Enthusiast
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Why do we put up with this sort of thing?

"Ken Livingstone has published another fake public "consultation" regarding his "Low Emission Zone" plans which will cover the whole of London within the M25 starting in 2008."

"This will cover all the 33 London Boroughs within the M25, but not the M25 itself, and will seek to limit particulate carbon air pollutants , which are mostly produced by pre-2001 vintage diesel engined lorries etc. through Yet Another Automatic Number Plate Recognition enforced system of fees (£100 to £200 a day) and fines (£ 1000 or more)."

"Unlike the London Congestion Charge, presumably this LEZ scheme will need to be run 24/7 and at weekends."

"It is proposed that the LEZ would be enforced using Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras similar to those used for Congestion Charging. Fixed cameras would be supplemented by mobile patrol units fitted with ANPR cameras"

"ANPR cameras sited around the edge of, and presumably within the M25, will snoop on all vehicles, and presumably the data will be sent to the National Automatic Number Plate Recogintion Database in Hendon, where the movements of all vehicles, including private cars, will be kept for at least 2 years, and probably at least 6 years, even if for the vast majority of law abiding drivers"

(http://www.mayor-of-london.co.uk/blog/2006/02/m25_low_emission_zone_another.html)
 
When it says at the start 'The Daily Telegraph misattributes this blog to Ken Livingstone' do not the words 'mischief' and 'maker' come to mind?
 
When it says at the start 'The Daily Telegraph misattributes this blog to Ken Livingstone' do not the words 'mischief' and 'maker' come to mind?

"http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/environment/air_quality/lez.jsp"

"From 2008 diesel heavy goods vehicles (HGVs), coaches and buses that fail to meet a minimum pollution standard will be charged to drive within the Greater London area. Such a charge would be designed to act as an effective incentive for operators to modify or replace dirty vehicles. From 2010, the heaviest, most polluting light goods vehicles (LGVs) and minibuses will also be included in the scheme."

Surely this is against the Treaty of Rome which allows for free movement of goods within the EU?
 
I have one lorry which is only Euro 2 spec, so this will need to be replaced.
It's the best looking one of the lot too, the one with the chamelion paintwork.
I can't even change the route for the vehicle, as my yard us 100 metres inside the M25:rolleyes:

All the others are Euro 3's, so are ok until he changes his mind again.
 
I have one lorry which is only Euro 2 spec, so this will need to be replaced.
It's the best looking one of the lot too, the one with the chamelion paintwork.
I can't even change the route for the vehicle, as my yard us 100 metres inside the M25:rolleyes:

All the others are Euro 3's, so are ok until he changes his mind again.

So large operators who change their fleets every few years will not be effected, but smaller business (who can least afford it) will be, and everyone's journies will be recorded as they go about their business....

And by say 2012 how many non Euro 3s will be left on the roads anyway?
 
So large operators who change their fleets every few years will not be effected, but smaller business (who can least afford it) will be, and everyone's journies will be recorded as they go about their business....

And by say 2012 how many non Euro 3s will be left on the roads anyway?


Correct.
It's always the small operator who gets hit.
Look at the operators licencing for example. I want to increase my O' licence to 5 vehicles and trailers.
That means I need to have £19800.00 in the bank as cleared funds or an available overdraft for the 3 months prior to applying.
A large firm can simply state that their annual turnover is greater than £5.4 million and they get it straight away.

Anyone wanna lend me £20k then for 3 months:devil:

I think there will be plenty of non euro 3's left in 2012.
I sold my old Scania 143 500 to my mate 2 years ago and he said he would never sell it.
That's how I started, with a £4k Renault magnum. How many new owner drivers are going to be able to fund a euro 3?
Not many.

The euro 5 is already out and adds up to £5k on the price of a euro 4:rolleyes: .
They use a new system called Ad Blue.
 
There are substantial benefits to living up north not least of which is not having to put up with that man and his nonsense.

That said, it was in his manifesto to bring in an LEZ and it looks like he'll do it by next February. Democracy in Action

The only upsides I can see is it only applies to London :p And it wont apply to cars or lght (car based) vans, at least not yet but for the hauliers and bus operaters of this world it will be a nightmare with the charges set so high that replacing a vehicle becomes more economical than paying the charge.

And there is already a problem with cloned number plates on cars to avoid the congestion charge, do we really need all the cowboy HGV and PSV operators joining in ?

Staying legal is going to cost a fortune and the operators that do so will have to recoup the costs from somewhere, which will probably be from the average Londoners pocket.
 
£200 per day x 5 days + £1000. That's just to park in my yard:mad:

I pay less on HP per month than that for a £35k lorry.

There was talk of a demonstration, but there were also threats of us being arrested and / or it going on record against our operators licences.:eek:

Found the adblue talk:

AdBlue is a solution of urea in water (32.5%), which is used in lorries that use diesel oil, in order to have them run with less impact on the environment. AdBlue is taken on board the lorry in a separate tank. The agent is injected into the hot exhaust gases before a special catalyst. The nitrogen oxides that form during the combustion are converted into elementary nitrogen and water. AdBlue reduces the consumption of diesel oil by approximately 5%, thus allowing lorries that run on diesel oil to meet the Euro IV standard introduced in 2006 and the future Euro V standard (2008).

What they don't say though, is that if you let the tank run dry, you can get fined for not being clean and the output of your vehicle also reduces by up to 50%.
 
Correct.
It's always the small operator who gets hit.
Look at the operators licencing for example. I want to increase my O' licence to 5 vehicles and trailers.
That means I need to have £19800.00 in the bank as cleared funds or an available overdraft for the 3 months prior to applying.
A large firm can simply state that their annual turnover is greater than £5.4 million and they get it straight away.

Anyone wanna lend me £20k then for 3 months:devil:

I think there will be plenty of non euro 3's left in 2012.
I sold my old Scania 143 500 to my mate 2 years ago and he said he would never sell it.
That's how I started, with a £4k Renault magnum. How many new owner drivers are going to be able to fund a euro 3?
Not many.

The euro 5 is already out and adds up to £5k on the price of a euro 4:rolleyes: .
They use a new system called Ad Blue.

And how many small businesses who use an older, but well maintained van or 7.5 tonner will suddenly be forced to buy a new one, or spot hire them?

I can see that plenty of people within the M25 who used to get free local delivery from their suppliers will find the service withdrawn...

Seems our government/mayor only cares about big business.
 
£200 per day x 5 days + £1000. That's just to park in my yard:mad:

I pay less on HP per month than that for a £35k lorry.

There was talk of a demonstration, but there were also threats of us being arrested and / or it going on record against our operators licences.:eek:

Found the adblue talk:

AdBlue is a solution of urea in water (32.5%), which is used in lorries that use diesel oil, in order to have them run with less impact on the environment. AdBlue is taken on board the lorry in a separate tank. The agent is injected into the hot exhaust gases before a special catalyst. The nitrogen oxides that form during the combustion are converted into elementary nitrogen and water. AdBlue reduces the consumption of diesel oil by approximately 5%, thus allowing lorries that run on diesel oil to meet the Euro IV standard introduced in 2006 and the future Euro V standard (2008).

What they don't say though, is that if you let the tank run dry, you can get fined for not being clean and the output of your vehicle also reduces by up to 50%.

Supposedly non UK operators will be exempt, thanks to their foreign plates, so expect a rise in the number of flagged UK lorries, and more worringly far more poorly maintained Southern/Eastern European trucks working in England, on cheaper diesel and without the costs UK hauliers are saddled with...
 
Supposedly non UK operators will be exempt, thanks to their foreign plates, so expect a rise in the number of flagged UK lorries, and more worringly far more poorly maintained Southern/Eastern European trucks working in England, on cheaper diesel and without the costs UK hauliers are saddled with...

Never a truer word spoken.
(Well, typed;))
 
Supposedly non UK operators will be exempt, thanks to their foreign plates, so expect a rise in the number of flagged UK lorries, and more worringly far more poorly maintained Southern/Eastern European trucks working in England, on cheaper diesel and without the costs UK hauliers are saddled with...

I would trust that the Brits would do the same as the Germans and ensure that trucks in transit comply with all the regs. Most now seem to have learnt the lesson as it is rare to see an East Euroepan truck that is not a new Scania or Murky.
I thought that this proposal was not serious when I first saw it but as the operators are giving it credence, it must be the case.
So, I believe there are a couple of well established HGV trade organisations that should be looking after the interests of members. Usually the aim would be to negotiate a delay, exemptions or something that relieves some of the pain. What are they doing about it?
 
As ever there will always be losers but there needs to be some for of transitional protection for those already operating vehicles within the vicinity, especially if your yard is just within the boundary:crazy: :crazy:
 
All mine are 44 tonnes:crazy:

Then they need to meet Euro III by Feb. 2008 and Euro VI by Jan.2012.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/low-emission-zone-leaflet.pdf

And do not think this will just be London. Many other local politicians like those in Edinburgh and Stuttgart have their eyes on this, just like congestion charging so the country and Europe is likely to becomes a patchwork quilt of Road legislation.

If you look at Appendix 1 of the "consultation" document there are a lot of stakeholders who clearly have a direct interest in this matter. Government plus every Local Authority in the Country. And the EU.

But a lot who you must think: WTF?? e,g:

Alzheimer’s Society
Asian People with Disabilities Alliance
National Autistic Society
Organisation of Blind Afro-Caribbeans
Board of Deputies of British Jews
Buddhist Society
Chinese Church in London
Church of England – London
National Council of Hindu Temples
Zoroastrian Trust Funds of Europe
 
AdBlue is a solution of urea in water (32.5%), which is used in lorries that use diesel oil, in order to have them run with less impact on the environment. AdBlue is taken on board the lorry in a separate tank. The agent is injected into the hot exhaust gases before a special catalyst. The nitrogen oxides that form during the combustion are converted into elementary nitrogen and water. AdBlue reduces the consumption of diesel oil by approximately 5%, thus allowing lorries that run on diesel oil to meet the Euro IV standard introduced in 2006 and the future Euro V standard (2008).
Blue is the new green!!

Sounds like the same technology that MB & VW (and others to follow) are using to comply with tight emissions regulations for diesels in parts of the US?
 
Why do we put up with this sort of thing?

Because diesel particulates from old vehicles cause health problems.
I'm sure most Londoners would support the policy.

adam
 
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