OM12 car engine the same as Sprinter engine?

[popuptoaster]

Hey all, it's been a while since I've been on here!

I have an 04 Sprinter 416 4x4, it's an ex forces ambulance that has only covered 22000 miles but i managed to kill it.

It had been standing for a long time and I just started it up and drove it 200 miles whereupon it developed a sudden death rattle, then went crunch as something broke and then seized solid.

I am fully aware I am an idiot and should have changed the oil and fluids before driving it. in fact it's taken me about 3 months to get my enthusiasm back and make an attempt to fix it.

I have several options but to make sense of them you have to remember the van is quite rare, the 4x4s are not common especially the big 416 version and they hold there money extremely well on top of the fact that mine has covered almost no miles, So.....



(1) A recon engine for the Sprinter is £1900 exchange, but only if mine is not damaged (which it is) so that means non exchange price is £2500+VAT+delivery with 12 months warranty, unless you fit it yourself, in which case its only a one month warranty, this is pretty much the same from everyone, i'm not paying over 3k for an engine with a 30 day warranty and i just don't have the funds to get it fitted by a pro on top of buying the engine.

(2) Chuck a scrapyard engine in it, these are still £500+, come with no warranty and being a Sprinter engine 90% of them will be well over 300,000 miles which seems a bit pointless bearing in mind the rest of the vans mileage and the fact it would be worth £10K even before i start converting it to a motorhome.

(3) Buy a car that was fitted with the OM12 and take the engine out, for £3000 I am likely to be able to buy a much lower mileage car who's engine has had a much easier life probably bolted to an auto box and not humping 3 ton of gear about all day, as I don't care if the car is totalled as long as it runs and I can check the engine this seems like the most sensible option as long as the engine is the same which is where i need your help.

I don't know if its the same engine, or if it is, should go for any particular year/model of car?

It doesn't matter if the sump and ancillaries are different as I have all that on my engine and can swap things around as long as the block and base engine is the same so anyone know there engines and can offer suggestions?

Couple of photos just so you can see what I'm trying to get fixed, hopefully to build up into an expedition vehicle.

I'll say thanks in advance for anyone who can offers suggestions.

 

[Andyfkettle]

Can’t help with the engine but that will make a great camper! What did you pay for it out of interest? Good luck.

 

[popuptoaster]

£10k

Can’t help with the engine but that will make a great camper! What did you pay for it out of interest? Good luck.

£10k, but it took a long time to find, I had found two others over several months, both of which were panel vans and both had been welsh mountain rescue vans, both were rotten (I was pulling bits of chassis rail out from under the battery tray on one of them and the guy wouldn't drop the price below 10 grand) and both were higher miles and more expensive than this one.

I think most people prefer the panel van version as a 4x4, it's what i would have bought had I found a good one, but this came with an auxiliary battery, on board charger, diesel heater etc and the back is insulated so i'll put up with slight reduced off road abilities given that i shouldn't be doing anything to extreme in it anyway and it does have a lot more room in the back.

Some more pics for anyone who cares.

 

[Andyfkettle]

Shame about the engine. Looks great. [emoji1360] hope you find a easy solution. Can you not strip it to inspect it? You’ve got to take it to bits anyway.

 

[popuptoaster]

I might take it apart when the weather warms up and have a look, but something in there hit something else it wasn't supposed to, I've heard that noise before so it'll need a full rebuild as bits of metal will have been going round the engine in the oil and got in all the bearings, plus replace whatever broke.


While i'd be happy to sling another engine in i'm not confident in my ability to rebuild this so i'd have to pay to get it done, probably cost more for a decent job than a replacement engine. I wont chuck this one out though so it may get done eventually.

 

[Colterry]

I would go onto Facebook and ask if anyone is stripping a Sprinter and you want a Motor, with luck some White Van Driver hit a low bridge and you will know the exact miles it has. Wrecking Yards well they have been around the block unless you can look at the vehicle it came out of and check the miles before you buy.

Also, not hard to rip off the head and look at the damage your one has, sounds from what you said a Piston brake it's crank, could be easy fix, if side of block is not damaged. Just a replacement piston, and Top Gasket and sump gaskets and your up and running. Will not know till you pop the head off.

Best of luck.

 

[popuptoaster]

I would go onto Facebook and ask if anyone is stripping a Sprinter and you want a Motor, with luck some White Van Driver hit a low bridge and you will know the exact miles it has. Wrecking Yards well they have been around the block unless you can look at the vehicle it came out of and check the miles before you buy.

Also, not hard to rip off the head and look at the damage your one has, sounds from what you said a Piston brake it's crank, could be easy fix, if side of block is not damaged. Just a replacement piston, and Top Gasket and sump gaskets and your up and running. Will not know till you pop the head off.

Best of luck.

it's a 2004 van, think they changed engines in 2006, be extremely lucky to find a low mileage Sprinter of that age with an engine still in it even a crashed one.

As far as repairing it goes you can't just replace the broken bit and expect it to last long, if it spun a bearing or something broke it will have had metal particles going round the whole engine in the oil, likely to need a new oil pump on top of whatever broke plus new bearings all round, a full gasket set, new rings, full rebuild prices soon add up, head gasket set is probably over 100 quid by itself for example i dunno if it uses stretch bolts in the head that need replacing. There is also the problem that I don't know these engines at all so it would be easy to make a mistake and then ruin it again, so add in the cost of paying someone who knows what they are doing and it's likely as costly as the simpler engine swap options.

If it was a thousand quid mondeo i'd have a go, but it isn't.

 

[toolman1954]

Hi,
This is a nice van, great for conversion to Camper van. As the 416 is a 4 1/2 tonner, are you going to try to get it down plated to 3 1/2 ton, or do you already have an Operators licence and use it with the Tachograph. This past post may be helpful to you.
Tyres for a Sprinter 416CDI 4X4 LWB HR Crew Van
I have just been reading this, idle thoughts of converting my own 312......Legal Information, Requirements and Rules for Camper Vans by the DVLA - Campervan Life you might find it useful in your quest.

Steve.

 

[popuptoaster]

Don't need a OL or the tacho if its reclassified as a motorhome and is for private use only, you just need the appropriate license for the weight which in this case is a pre '97 car license or a separate test for cat C1, both of which i qualify for as I'm both old and an HGV driver by trade.

That post about tyres also ceases to be a problem for a motorhome as they are not subject to ministry tests, they get the same test as a car so wheel and tyre sizes are not fixed to standard like in a ministry test which is handy as I will be converting either to super singles or the newer 16" rims and fitting taller A/T tyres.

I wanted the heavier weight version as the 4x4s are a bit heavier empty anyway and the limited payload in all 3.5t camper vans means the interiors are always really flimsy, even if they look nice they never last long without looking worn or feel nice when you use them. That extra ton(ish) of capacity allows for bigger water tanks and a bit of spare carrying capacity as well as more solid materials inside.

My dads 3.5t Ducato coachbuilt van ready to go on a trip with him and my mum in it, a full tank of diesel, stocked food cupboards and their luggage for a weeks trip is so close to it's weight limit he has to travel with the water tank almost empty, we have a weighbridge at work and he'd been using it overweight for several years, had to jettison his spare gas bottle and tell him he could fill the water or the diesel tank but not both at the same time!

Have seen campers pulled in by the DVLA inspectors at weighbridge checks twice now where the owners were having to leave stuff behind or find themselves unable to proceed so i suspect it much be fairly common.

 

[popuptoaster]

whoops double post instead of edit

 

[horatio]

I would have a dig about on sprinter-source, huge amount of knowledge on these vans on there. Will make a super camper...

 

[popuptoaster]

Trouble is they all know about vans same as you guys all know about the cars no one seems to know about both!

Im going to chance it and pick up a whole car either an ML270, or an E or C 270 soon as i see a cheap enough one with lowish miles, might also take the front seats out to replace my Sprinter ones if they happen to be any good.

 

[Andyfkettle]

Good luck. Be interesting to follow.

 

[wu56Shoozz]

Would you not be better with a Vito OM646 as I think from your pictures your engine is a 4 pot is it not?

The ML270 would be the old 5 pot as fitted to the Jeep Grand Cherokee. A bomb proof engine that suffers the Black Death & Hi/Lo Pressure pump failures but apart from that nowt to worry about that a spanner can't fix..It would also mean a bit of fabrication to fit engine and box whereby a similar 4 pot would not..

Maybe an OM642 could be a possibility if yer up for fabrication and plenty of poke to haul that chassis along.. just a thought

 

[toolman1954]

I had not realised that the 416 uses a 4 pot engine, I had been keeping an eye open for a 5 pot for him, which would give him 160 bhp. So I checked up and this what is in the 416 :---
Performance. Engine Name: 416 CDI - 2.7 CDI 115kW; Build (Body Type): Van; Drive: Rear Wheel Drive; Top Speed: - mph; Max Power: 154.2 bhp; Max Torque: 243.4 ft-lb; 0-100kph / 0-62mph: - secs; Power to Weight Ratio: 32.7 hp/lb; Fuel Consumption: - mpg; CO2: 0 g/km ...
Power to Weight Ratio‎: ‎32.7 hp/lb
Engine Name‎: ‎416 CDI - 2.7 CDI 115kW
Curb Weight‎: ‎2285.00 kg
Length‎: ‎6589.00 mm

154bhp from a 4 pot engine is excellent, and it is an OM612 Engine 904 chassis

Even a new set of shell bearings are £175 very eye watering

 

[toolman1954]

Used short engine .....£139 ?? just put your own head and ancillaries on this. Easy peasy.

MERCEDES 612.963 2.7 CDI SHORT ENGINE BLOCK PISTONS CRANKSHAFT ML270 E270 C270 | eBay

or a full used engine for £345 another 612.963, I do not know the exact engine in yours

MERCEDES W163 ML270 CDI DIESEL ENGINE 612.963 WARRANTY 60 DAYS | eBay

 

[popuptoaster]

Mines a 5 pot, hence the expense, 4 pots are ten a penny. I don't want a high mileage used engine, one I haven't heard running or a short block with no warranty, van is too good for that.

The 416 is the 4(.6) ton 160bhp model, has the 5 cylinder 157bhp OM12 in it far as I know you couldn't buy the dual wheel heavy weight model with any of the smaller engines in, even if you could mine isn't one of them!

Also easy enough to chip the OM12 up to about 200bhp it ran that stock in some versions in the cars so not much point going for an engine swap unless it's a bit more serious.

turns out can't use the top ends out of the cars, they are different castings to take the different ancillaries and also valve sizes are different which could confuse my ECU and make life difficult. I'm going to strip my engine and see what broke and go from there.

 

[toolman1954]

I keep searching for an OM12 engine but I get nothing. It seems no such thing exists. Most engines start with a 6, the OM being Oil Motor, which is why I thought you had missed the 6 part off of the 12?

Ok ... after more searching .....you have an OM612 5 Cylinder diesel in your van. At least knowing what else it was fitted to, gives some scope, especially seeing it was in a 2000 E class, which potentially is a rot box and you might get a whole running car very cheap just for the engine.

Mercedes-Benz OM612 engine - Wikipedia

The Mercedes-Benz OM612 engine is a straight-5 diesel engine produced by Mercedes-Benz.

It was introduced in 1999 for the 2000 model year in a 170 PS (125 kW; 168 hp) version in the W210 E-Class, W163 ML-Class, W203 C-Class and W209 CLK-Class in 2000. Also used in the Austrian built Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee

A detuned version with 156 PS (115 kW; 154 hp) was used in the W90x Sprinter from 2000 to 2006, and in some versions of the military G-Wagen.

The OM612 was a 5-cylinder version of the OM611. A six-cylinder OM613 was also produced.


Technical specifications[edit]
Displacement Bore Stroke Cylinders Valves Power Torque Applications

2,685 cc (2.685 L; 163.8 cu in) 88.0 mm 88.3 mm straight-5 20 156 PS (115 kW; 154 hp) @3800 rpm 330 N⋅m (240 lb⋅ft) @1400–2400 rpm 2000 W90x Sprinter and G-Wagen G 270 CDI
163 PS (120 kW; 161 hp) @4200 rpm 370 N⋅m (270 lb⋅ft) @1600–2800 rpm 1999 W210 E-Class and 2000 W203 C-Class for Belgium
170 PS (125 kW; 168 hp) @4200 rpm 370 N⋅m (270 lb⋅ft) @1600–2800 rpm 1999 W210 E-Class and 2000 W203 C-Class for others than Belgium

 

[wu56Shoozz]

^ Also the UK Jeep GC 2.7CRD - I have one. Got it remapped too..

 

[zipdip]

Well you have had a lot of good advice,I would if in your position remove your engine and find out what has broke,you may well not be able to repair it yourself but it is important to know what has gone wrong,armed with that you might be able to get your engine re-conned,that should be far less than the quotes you have had and a budget of around £2500,from the picture the top of your engine looks good,have you put a rod through the side or something through the sump,if not it all points to maybe not too much wrong,if you do not have the tools for a engine out get a mobile mechanic to remove the engine .