One for Dragon ...

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I'm a salesman and bloody proud of it!

Who the hell are you to say that my profession attracts disgust in others? Without sales people no industry in the world would survive. Every one of us sells ourselves nearly every day. Ask yourself, did you sell yourself when you met your wife, girlfriend? Or maybe you don't have the people skills to have progressed to that stage.

Of course we need engineers as well, who else would we call to fix the coffee machine?

before we get back into a huge arguement over why we need engineers which has been exhausted on other threads let me wrap it up simply,

1. without engineers you wouldnt have a job as you would have nothing to sell,

2. well designed products dont need salesman they sell themselves, my products do not need a sniviling brown nosed slime balls to generate revenue, I stick them on a stand and people with lots of medals buy them, I suppose that is a type of sales, I think you can see what type of salesman I hate though,

3. salesman lie as their job, met many, liked few, you sell your soul to make money, not much difference between that and the oldest trade, if you dont sell your soul then you enjoying lying and thats worse,

4. who the hell am I too say your trade attracts disgust in others, somebody who has a respected trade which has taken 10 years to learn so far, a mate of mine makes similar money after a 2 week sales training course, which one of us has more financial security?

5. Without sales people no industry in the world would survive - I doubt it, and if industries did die then maybe we didnt need them, notice how its the least necessary trades that go first when its a recession, yep thats right, we didnt need you all along,

6. Did I sell myself when I met my girlfriend, no, thats what all the kids in clubs do, preened hair, cool clothes etc, reminds me of a peacock strutting its stuff trying to attract a partner, civilised society has come beyond that,

7. your closing gambet on your lack of knowledge on engineers, there is an enormous difference between a a guy who can fix a coffee machine and a guy who designs turrets and armoured vehicles which keep people alive in war zones (guess which catagory I fit in, there may be a clue,)
 
Sales:

If it is such an easy job, why is it so well paid?
If we don't need them, why does every company in the world employ them?
If anyone can do it, why don't we all go and do sell stuff and earn more than as an engineer?

Answer: because it is a sophisticated and demanding job that requires skills that very few people possess. Good salespeople are extremely rare. Good engineers are ten a penny.

And I speak as somebody who studied mechanical engineering, not sales.

I also believe that the world cannot operate without engineers and that their role is vastly under-valued and under-appreciated in this country. But I can't deny that sales is is a skills-based job, too. I know which of the two roles I made more money in (hint: I am no longer in engineering).
 
Good engineers are ten a penny.

WHAT TOSH!!!

Good engineers are not ten a penny, people who like to put them down are as they cant do it,

Maybe its a reflection on how good you are as an engineer if you earn more as a salesman, I am still in engineering and I earn loads thanks, and more than most hollow, slimey, talentless sicafants that are in sales, maybe you found sales suited your skills base better, some people are naturally good at some things, I stick up for engineering as I am naturally good at it,
 
before we get back into a huge arguement over why we need engineers which has been exhausted on other threads let me wrap it up simply,

1. without engineers you wouldnt have a job as you would have nothing to sell,

2. well designed products dont need salesman they sell themselves, my products do not need a sniviling brown nosed slime balls to generate revenue, I stick them on a stand and people with lots of medals buy them, I suppose that is a type of sales, I think you can see what type of salesman I hate though,

3. salesman lie as their job, met many, liked few, you sell your soul to make money, not much difference between that and the oldest trade, if you dont sell your soul then you enjoying lying and thats worse,

4. who the hell am I too say your trade attracts disgust in others, somebody who has a respected trade which has taken 10 years to learn so far, a mate of mine makes similar money after a 2 week sales training course, which one of us has more financial security?

5. Without sales people no industry in the world would survive - I doubt it, and if industries did die then maybe we didnt need them, notice how its the least necessary trades that go first when its a recession, yep thats right, we didnt need you all along,

6. Did I sell myself when I met my girlfriend, no, thats what all the kids in clubs do, preened hair, cool clothes etc, reminds me of a peacock strutting its stuff trying to attract a partner, civilised society has come beyond that,

7. your closing gambet on your lack of knowledge on engineers, there is an enormous difference between a a guy who can fix a coffee machine and a guy who designs turrets and armoured vehicles which keep people alive in war zones (guess which catagory I fit in, there may be a clue,)

My you're an aggressive little feller aren't you?

I wonder what has made you like this?

You see, as a salesman I've a skill for reading people and you do seem to have an irrational hatred for people like me which must come from somewhere. Have a little think about what makes you so angry, it can't be doing you any good.

I won't rise to your insults, they are merely a display of your ignorance of MY profession.

Take a tip from the top - don't bother replying to this post you'l only make yourself look even more aggressive and unreasonable.
 
All of you guys are wrong. We need a team to work together. This demonstrated you guys can't work in a team. Without teamwork there is no winning team in football, ruby or whatever.:rolleyes:
 
All of you guys are wrong. We need a team to work together. This demonstrated you guys can't work in a team. Without teamwork there is no winning team in football, ruby or whatever.:rolleyes:

He's bloody cracked it you know!

A blinding flash of brilliance from Dragon :bannana:
 
See what you started Howard.

It's all your fault!
 
He's bloody cracked it you know!

A blinding flash of brilliance from Dragon :bannana:

Didn't I said my first languages are Java and C++?:D
Nobody believes me.
They called me silly.
 
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My you're an aggressive little feller aren't you?

I wonder what has made you like this?

You see, as a salesman I've a skill for reading people and you do seem to have an irrational hatred for people like me which must come from somewhere. Have a little think about what makes you so angry, it can't be doing you any good.

I won't rise to your insults, they are merely a display of your ignorance of MY profession.

Take a tip from the top - don't bother replying to this post you'l only make yourself look even more aggressive and unreasonable.

you are certainly not above me so I shall reply to your condescending thoughts,

I don't know what pink and fluffy world you live in but that was not aggressive, as you should be able to appreciate somebody in my line of work, (wars, death, bombs etc) I cant be a weedy shrinking violet, so I air my thoughts confidently, the difference between sales people and engineers has been discussed before on and off of this forum, suffice to say we live in different worlds and we don't understand each others and think our own is better,

however you are wrong and I shall point out where, yours is not the only industry where reading people is important, its a basic human function so your not special,

Also my hatred of salesman is neither strong or irrational, you seem quite articulate and im pretty sure we would hate the same type of person that im about to outline that makes a bad name for your industry,

an ex friend of mine (as mentioned) completed a 2 week course in sales, got a job selling computers and parts and honestly thought he was very important, what I thought was odd and makes me dislike your industry as a whole is that he knew nothing about computers, apparently you don't need that to sell them you have techy guys if the buyer asks something you don't understand (that will be salesman relying of technical engineering types then) as he was arrogant, another trait of your industry I have noticed he couldn't understand that if he got an order wrong then somebody wouldn't get a print cartridge and it wasn't a problem, if I **** up at work people die and I am held accountable, and it is that simple, he also spent all of his day cold calling, (pet hate of everybody) wearing a overhead microphone and he had to log all of his calls and had phone stats, so many minutes on a phone must equate to this much revenue, what a sad state of affairs to end up in being herded like a sheep where you have no room for thought or diversity in your day.

I hope this doesn't apply to you and I hope you have a much better existence,
 
Yes, I am still waiting to hear what paper you read, Simon......:devil:

As a matter of fact, I get my news by looking at a wide variety of sites online and reading them in the context they are presented. This is the 21st century after all. If I am going to read a real physical newspaper I just grab whatever happens to be nearest, and treat it with the same kind of suspicion. All newspapers are going to have some kind of bias. I do particularly like the Guardian - not to read, but because the crosswords are particularly fun :)

However - the mail is especially bad. They pretend to not be a tabloid, to be a 'quality' newspaper, but their strategy for selling papers is to take information out of context, exaggerate it and try and get their readership all emotional about it. And the worst thing is that negative emotions sell the most papers, so they're driving these people to be either scared or dismayed or angry...

Frankly I'd prefer people read The Sun or The Mirror to the Mail. They may be full of crap, but at least it's mostly feel good crap, not feel bad crap!

-simon
 
you are certainly not above me so I shall reply to your condescending thoughts,

I don't know what pink and fluffy world you live in but that was not aggressive, as you should be able to appreciate somebody in my line of work, (wars, death, bombs etc) I cant be a weedy shrinking violet, so I air my thoughts confidently, the difference between sales people and engineers has been discussed before on and off of this forum, suffice to say we live in different worlds and we don't understand each others and think our own is better,

however you are wrong and I shall point out where, yours is not the only industry where reading people is important, its a basic human function so your not special,

Also my hatred of salesman is neither strong or irrational, you seem quite articulate and im pretty sure we would hate the same type of person that im about to outline that makes a bad name for your industry,

an ex friend of mine (as mentioned) completed a 2 week course in sales, got a job selling computers and parts and honestly thought he was very important, what I thought was odd and makes me dislike your industry as a whole is that he knew nothing about computers, apparently you don't need that to sell them you have techy guys if the buyer asks something you don't understand (that will be salesman relying of technical engineering types then) as he was arrogant, another trait of your industry I have noticed he couldn't understand that if he got an order wrong then somebody wouldn't get a print cartridge and it wasn't a problem, if I **** up at work people die and I am held accountable, and it is that simple, he also spent all of his day cold calling, (pet hate of everybody) wearing a overhead microphone and he had to log all of his calls and had phone stats, so many minutes on a phone must equate to this much revenue, what a sad state of affairs to end up in being herded like a sheep where you have no room for thought or diversity in your day.

I hope this doesn't apply to you and I hope you have a much better existence,

First, might I suggest you review your posts for errors before posting, and concentrate on spelling, grammar, punctuation, capitalisation and general cohesion of the text? You're not doing yourself or your profession any favours here.

Now a response. The truth of the matter is, a good sales person is a highly skilled and motivated individual whose role is to make sure that his customers purchase exactly what they need, at a price which is affordable for both parties. This kind of salesman is unfortunately rare - there is a ridiculously high proportion of bad salespeople, who spend their lives lying to earn as much as they can from commissions, etc. Thankfully the bad salespeople end up selling and earning less, over the longer term, and eventually they give up and go away. Either way, it is a difficult and thankless task, and I am glad I do not have to do it.

-simon
 
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thanks for pointing out something I already know, my spelling and grammer is bad, I have people below me for typing letters, I concentrate on far more important matters, I wont however take you seriously as your post also has spelling mistakes in it,

Thankfully the bad salespeople end up selling and earing less,

If your gonna have a go at my spelling check your own because lets face it, you now look silly!!!

Like some on here have you really nothing better to do than pick up spelling punctuation and grammer rather than concentrating of the body of the text and the way it was implied, I assume you also dont know that correcting s/p and G in internet forums and emails is considered rude as people, like myself, are more interested in what they are saying rather than it is spelt,

Anyway you stay on here all night as resident english teacher, im off out, X
 
there is a ridiculously high proportion of bad salespeople, who spend their lives lying to earn as much as they can from commissions, etc. Thankfully the bad salespeople end up selling and earning less, over the longer term, and eventually they give up and go away. Either way, it is a difficult and thankless task, and I am glad I do not have to do it.

I've known some very bad salespeople make a very good living and continue to do so, simply because there is a product that people need and want to buy.
Any product with an ongoing related service can make a poor salesperson a good living, because the ongoing support 'wins' them extra business further down the line.
There are indeed good and bad sales people, the good ones command respect, the poor ones command derision, but the two facets are not often linked to income or success.

A truly good salesperson should be able to upsell the product in the face of adversity. It's very rare to see that happen, normally they rely on discounting or adding incentive for the cusomer at their employers expense.
 
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I'm a salesman and bloody proud of it!

Who the hell are you to say that my profession attracts disgust in others? Without sales people no industry in the world would survive.
Never heard that one before, nearly always from an over-egoed Salesman.
Of course we need engineers as well, who else would we call to fix the coffee machine?

Ha ha, ha.. Very cutting. You could do with broadening your views of peoples jobs and skills before making comments like that, it really doesn't show you in a good light.

As The MD of a reasonable sized Sales led organisation once said to me, 'Selling is a numbers game, knock enough doors and some will open.'
 
Sales:

If it is such an easy job, why is it so well paid?
Mainly because they received and elevated position during Mrs Thatchers era, which they have capitalized on since. The same isn't true in all countries, even within Europe.
Good salespeople are extremely rare.
I'd agree there. I see many poor ones make a good living though and carve out a career with prospects.
Good engineers are ten a penny.
Absolute cobblers.
I think the old saying went. Anyone can train to be a Salesman, but you have to be born to be an engineer.
It's having that inquisitive mind makes an engineer, if you don't have that you can't be one, however much training you have.
I also believe that the world cannot operate without engineers and that their role is vastly under-valued and under-appreciated in this country.

Looks like we will agree here. thanks.
 
Never heard that one before, nearly always from an over-egoed Salesman.


Ha ha, ha.. Very cutting. You could do with broadening your views of peoples jobs and skills before making comments like that, it really doesn't show you in a good light.

As The MD of a reasonable sized Sales led organisation once said to me, 'Selling is a numbers game, knock enough doors and some will open.'

Maybe I was a little agitated but if you look at the posts around mine you'll understand, I'm sure, that I was pretty restrained really given the provecation and insults.

You know that the coffee machine jibe was 'tongue in cheek' and pretty mild in comparison to the insults that were being levelled at me and my collegues.
 

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